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Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

AlabamaPaul said:
Services to the people? Did you mean freebies for some people?
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The people are the economic engine of the U.S. They provide a service (work) and in return they're supposed to be taken care of (services). In the absence of a decent paycheck their needs have to come from somewhere.
 
Verax said:
The people are the economic engine of the U.S. They provide a service (work) and in return they're supposed to be taken care of (services). In the absence of a decent paycheck their needs have to come from somewhere.
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No, individuals produce in order to receive compensation. If not, they do not deserve anything...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
No, individuals produce in order to receive compensation. If not, they do not deserve anything...
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Most people receiving government services also work. In times of high unemployment wages are very weak and options are limited, this increases the incidence of those who are unable to completely care for themselves and families through no fault of their own.
 
Verax said:
You're saying the Republicans do NOT cater to the rich?
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Certainly no more than the Democrats. Look what Obama has done.
So if we roll back all the services to the people, what do you think would happen?
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The people will rebel if any services are cut because, for the first time in US history, an overwhelming number of otherwise able bodied people have become dependent on the government and cannot function well without government support. So the politicians, in order to get elected, will simply promise more because the people would not want otherwise., We know that the country will be about $20,000,000,000,000 by the time Obama is out of office but does anyone but 'right wing' extremists' really care? America is no longer a country that thinks long term and would prefer that their children look after this problem.

The America of today is not the same country that existed for the previous 200 years, and thus will go the way of all those powers before them. It's really too bad for an Americaphile but it's also interesting to watch history unfold in front of me. It's like watching the Berlin Wall come down, but without the same sense of optimism.
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Verax said:
Most people receiving government services also work. In times of high unemployment wages are very weak and options are limited, this increases the incidence of those who are unable to completely care for themselves and families through no fault of their own.
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Who is at fault?
 
Verax said:
Most people receiving government services also work. In times of high unemployment wages are very weak and options are limited, this increases the incidence of those who are unable to completely care for themselves and families through no fault of their own.
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It usually is a fault of their own.
 
Verax said:
The people are the economic engine of the U.S. They provide a service (work) and in return they're supposed to be taken care of (services). In the absence of a decent paycheck their needs have to come from somewhere.
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Where is that in the Constitution, or anywhere else?
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Who is at fault?
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The economic manipulators who created the bubble. The big banks, the federal reserve, the politicians who enabled them, the people who voted them into office and still support their cronyism. Those who resist financial sector reform, regulations, prison for financial criminals, etc.

The destruction of middle class power, unions, manufacturing jobs, access to affordable higher education and healthcare.

This all puts the middle class into a position of weakness, of dependency, and you all support cutting the cord and sending them into the abyss as a solution.
 
Verax said:
The economic manipulators who created the bubble. The big banks, the federal reserve, the politicians who enabled them, the people who voted them into office and still support their cronyism. Those who resist financial sector reform, regulations, prison for financial criminals, etc.

The destruction of middle class power, unions, manufacturing jobs, access to affordable higher education and healthcare.

This all puts the middle class into a position of weakness, of dependency, and you all support cutting the cord and sending them into the abyss as a solution.
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So, in your view, it's everyone's fault except for the individual. That's an interesting concept...
 
Grant said:
Where is that in the Constitution, or anywhere else?
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Hiding behind the constitution is for those that have no true argument to stand up on its own. Its our country now, we don't need long dead men to tell us how to run it, what are we incompetent?
 
Verax said:
This all puts the middle class into a position of weakness, of dependency, and you all support cutting the cord and sending them into the abyss as a solution.
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I cannot see where this was mentioned. Can you please use the quote?
 
Verax said:
Hiding behind the constitution is for those that have no true argument to stand up on its own. Its our country now, we don't need long dead men to tell us how to run it, what are we incompetent?
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If you want to revolt against our form of government... Oh wait, you're already doing that...
 
Verax said:
Hiding behind the constitution is for those that have no true argument to stand up on its own. Its our country now, we don't need long dead men to tell us how to run it, what are we incompetent?
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Apparently you are incompetent. Otherwise you'd be able to live within your means and there'd be fewer people dependent on government.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
So, in your view, it's everyone's fault except for the individual. That's an interesting concept...
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So you suggest we go around telling people "be better than you are now" and it will fix everything? The people are who they are, they're not going to spontaneously morph into something more powerful to fix increasingly burdening circumstances. Most people are sheep, those of us that are able bodied are supposed to tend to the flock and see it to better times, not exploit them and call ourselves superior.
 
Grant said:
I cannot see where this was mentioned. Can you please use the quote?
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You support cutting government services right?
 
Grant said:
Apparently you are incompetent. Otherwise you'd be able to live within your means and there'd be fewer people dependent on government.
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Don't worry about me I'm doing just fine. If I were in the business of taking advantage of people I'd be working on that right now.

Is it impossible for you to imagine a country with strong government that functions well? If you can't, take a look at the Nordic countries and some of their neighbors. They've created a wealthy, progressive utopia.
 
Verax said:
So you suggest we go around telling people "be better than you are now" and it will fix everything? The people are who they are, they're not going to spontaneously morph into something more powerful to fix increasingly burdening circumstances. Most people are sheep, those of us that are able bodied are supposed to tend to the flock and see it to better times, not exploit them and call ourselves superior.
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No, humans are not inherently shepherds, we are individuals with an instinct for survival and seeking self interest until that is removed by another, more powerful force...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
No, humans are not inherently shepherds, we are individuals with an instinct for survival and seeking self interest until that is removed by another, more powerful force...
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So you want to exploit your fellow man for your personal gain? That's fine but stop pretending you care about the country, you care about yourself and you will destroy your fellow American for it.
 
Verax said:
So you want to exploit your fellow man for your personal gain? That's fine but stop pretending you care about the country, you care about yourself and you will destroy your fellow American for it.
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I don't want to exploit anyone. I want everyone to be as productive as they can and earn as much reward from doing so as possible. It appears that you would rather oppress your fellow man by encouraging mediocrity, if not down right laziness...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
I don't want to exploit anyone. I want everyone to be as productive as they can and earn as much reward from doing so as possible. It appears that you would rather oppress your fellow man by encouraging mediocrity, if not down right laziness...
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Pffft, "encourage mediocrity", you might think walking around with a whip beating people half to death makes them work harder, but it doesn't. This isn't the middle ages, we don't need such barbaric principles guiding us. Get into the sciences and talk to some psychologists, psychiatrists about what motivates people to be more efficient. It isn't jail time, threats, negative stimulus, its positive stimulus, its help, a safety net, security, a helping hand when you're down. Positive reinforcement is far more powerful than negative.

This is what the exploiters want, us to stab each other in the back over fear of losing something. Fear that part of my paycheck is going to somebody else that doesn't deserve it, rather than the possibility that it benefits us all greater than our individual input would otherwise.
 
Verax said:
Pffft, "encourage mediocrity", you might think walking around with a whip beating people half to death makes them work harder, but it doesn't. This isn't the middle ages, we don't need such barbaric principles guiding us. Get into the sciences and talk to some psychologists, psychiatrists about what motivates people to be more efficient. It isn't jail time, threats, negative stimulus, its positive stimulus, its help, a safety net, security, a helping hand when you're down. Positive reinforcement is far more powerful than negative.

This is what the exploiters want, us to stab each other in the back over fear of losing something. Fear that part of my paycheck is going to somebody else that doesn't deserve it, rather than the possibility that it benefits us all greater than our individual input would otherwise.
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Exactly what do you think the government is doing to the spirits of the individuals mired within their current dependency on government programs? No, it's not physical abuse, just mental, but you seem to be okay with that...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Exactly what do you think the government is doing to the spirits of the individuals mired within their current dependency on government programs? No, it's not physical abuse, just mental, but you seem to be okay with that...
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Is it the government that abuses them? Or is it Fox news, Republican talk radio, social media, websites, that all demonize and humiliate those receiving assistance? The constant belittling and labeling of "moochers", "losers", "takers", "lazy", what do you think that does to them? You might be surprised how many people don't want assistance and would rather have a good paying job in which they completely support themselves, all they need is a little help through a rough patch and things would be better.

But instead we toil in a loop where the middle class has so little money to spend we can't kickstart the economy through demand. Inequality is not just unfair it breaks the economy for everyone but the top 20%.
 
Verax said:
You support cutting government services right?
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That wasn't my question.

Do you feel that the country can afford to spend a trillions dollars a year of money it doesn't have? That is over and above what the government is already spending. How long do you think this can continue?
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