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Thread: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A generalization, a short cut that helps the discussion move forward, as in not atypical.

    And You seem to lack knowledge of the good reverend's historic style, often used by such haters MLK. Many forget MLK was dis-invited to the WH when he said "The greatest purveyor in the world today is my country, the United States of America."

    So, you seem to lack historical context and are prone to wild leaps. but no, this doesn't show racism at all.
    Why not stick to what Barrack Obama said rather than roaming off into other areas. What is a 'typical White person" and how does it relate to a 'typical Black person', for example?

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But how does purchasing your own health insurance from a private insurance company make you subservient to the government? That's the ridiculous part of it! The government - state nor federal - isn't the underwriter of the insurance policies that would be found on the exchanges. Private insurance companies retain that marketplace. All the fed has done is "standardize" the essential benefits within insurance policies at all levels - Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. Moreover, since the majority of people (the working class) still obtain their health insurance through their employer, how does anything about the acquisition of private health insurance change at this point? You can make the slippery-slope argument if you wish - that someday health insurance may become available strictly through the government, but as long as the government doesn't become the underwriter of the policies, it's still a private health insurance market. At this point, all government has done is standardize the policies, streamline the purchasing process (that is once the federal exchange website final becomes fully functional :rolls, and attempt to find ways (through taxation) to fund it all and, thus, make the system financially self-sustaining.

    Again, rational people who have studied the health care and health insurance industry understand this. I'm in no way saying that ObamaCare is the best way to do it, but if you understand how the free market works (i.e., the stock exchange), then you understand the principle behind the acquisition of health insurance through ObamaCare.
    All i can say is wait and see. There are believers and skeptics and I'm one of the skeptics, and as you can see from the very rocky start my skepticism is well justified.

    I certainly understand how the free market works and feel it's always proven to bring the best results for everyone. It certainly wasn't socialism that made America great but, like everywhere else, lessons must be learned.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    All i can say is wait and see. There are believers and skeptics and I'm one of the skeptics, and as you can see from the very rocky start my skepticism is well justified.
    ObamaCare was driven by factions from atleast three sides:

    - the Youth who on the one hand see their ability to earn a living being thwarted, and on the other are very much concerned about the financial stability of the nation.

    - Senior citizens who don't want to see the Medicare benefits they've worked all their lives for thrown away (along with their retirement nest-egg that is Social Security).

    - Corporate interests (i.e., National Association of Insurance Commissioners) who originally all but begged the government (Obama Administration) NOT to take over the health insurance industry.

    Those three entities all but forced Congress to pass ObamaCare. The two biggest reasons we don't have the CLASS Act today are:

    1) Young Americans (18-25) can stay on their parent's health insurance. Thus, there was no cost incentive for the youth of today to buy insurance. (Still isn't unless they have children of their own or are married.)

    2) Medicare still exists and would not be dismantled at any point in the future so that the working class would have to make the transition from paying into Social Security to paying into a new health "insurance" system.

    Remove those two barriers and you truly change the health insurance market.

    I certainly understand how the free market works and feel it's always proven to bring the best results for everyone. It certainly wasn't socialism that made America great but, like everywhere else, lessons must be learned.
    Then you understand the "choice and competition" really is the name of the game. The more "choices" people have of what level of insurance they want to buy from any insurance company on the private insurance market, the more "competition" there should be competing for consumer dollars. Now, although the exchanges - state- or federal- - won't operate on the "group" model for purchasing health insurance in bulk, the principles of the free market system still apply. Moreover, the barrier to state-lines is broken via the federal exchanges, thus, opening the health insurance markets still further. Therefore, theoretically, a person living in CA can purchase a cheap but effective health insurance plan in ME that fits his healthcare needs.

    Why people would work against their own self interest here continues to baffle me. But as I've said before, I preferred the CLASS Act over what we have now.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-14-13 at 02:05 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Compartmentalized intelligence? I couldn't find that term in my library of psych books. I highly doubt you are referring to compartmentalization, a defense mechanism people use to avoid cognitive dissonance, because that really doesn't make sense with the topic at hand. I'm guessing Psychology is outside the topic of your expertise. You should probably avoid talking of it because you may just demonstrate for the board someone going "full retard."
    Do your psych books tell you that people who are experts in one field can necessarily not be experts in others, like, oh I don't know, history?

    When Dr. Carson lectures on brain surgery I'm going to keep my fool mouth shut, but once he compares a health program to slavery I'm going to call bull****, thankyouverymuch.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 10-14-13 at 02:03 PM.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A generalization, a short cut that helps the discussion move forward, as in not atypical.

    And You seem to lack knowledge of the good reverend's historic style, often used by such haters MLK. Many forget MLK was dis-invited to the WH when he said "The greatest purveyor in the world today is my country, the United States of America."

    So, you seem to lack historical context and are prone to wild leaps. but no, this doesn't show racism at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    None of that suggests racism. Instead it is an effort to talk about race. Again, poor thinking on the side that criticizes Obama on this.
    Obama's statements do nothing but highlight the differences in his perception of the races. He comes across as quite the bigot as he doesn't seriously consider other points of view. He just assumes his is the correct perception and leads one to the conclusion that "white people" can't help but be prejudiced against everyone not white. He does not note any such preponderance of fault in the typical black person. Wouldn't that lead the logical person to believe that Obama thinks one race is superior to another in their capacity to be free from prejudice?

    On another tangent, any great leader seriously attempting to unite people will focus on similarities or common challenges, not differences. Obama has only shown the ability to unite two groups when he has a third group to unite them against. In almost every case so far in his presidency, that third group is made up of American citizens in one form or another.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Do your psych books tell you that people who are experts in one field can necessarily not be experts in others?

    When Dr. Carson lectures on brain surgery I'm going to keep my fool mouth shut, but once he compares a health program to slavery I'm going to call bull****, thankyouverymuch.
    I guess I will start by simply answering your question: No, my psychology books and background do not tell me that individuals may only be an expert in one field.

    By your own system of judgement, by what merit or expertise are you able to legitimately call bull**** on Dr. Carson's statements on Obamacare and slavery? Unless you are an expert in both, I don't see how your remarks meet your own evaluation standards.

    Well, unless you are an expert in bull****. In that case, you'd have me.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why not stick to what Barrack Obama said rather than roaming off into other areas. What is a 'typical White person" and how does it relate to a 'typical Black person', for example?
    If you don't think I have stuck to it, you don't understand what I wrote. I addressed that specifically. And in a similar context, and typical black person, without any added insult, would also not be racist.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Obama's statements do nothing but highlight the differences in his perception of the races. He comes across as quite the bigot as he doesn't seriously consider other points of view. He just assumes his is the correct perception and leads one to the conclusion that "white people" can't help but be prejudiced against everyone not white. He does not note any such preponderance of fault in the typical black person. Wouldn't that lead the logical person to believe that Obama thinks one race is superior to another in their capacity to be free from prejudice?

    On another tangent, any great leader seriously attempting to unite people will focus on similarities or common challenges, not differences. Obama has only shown the ability to unite two groups when he has a third group to unite them against. In almost every case so far in his presidency, that third group is made up of American citizens in one form or another.
    I don't get that all, though it is true we all have difference perceptions for many reasons, race being but one. Having these, even if they are misperceptions, is not a sign of racism.

    And you are reading more into his statement than there is. Highlighting the trouble with understanding each other is not racist. You can't advance understanding if you pretend there is nothing to talk about and find insult everywhere. What he attempted and said was quite proper and not at all racist.

    I suggest he has mentioned many similarities, but those are seldom problematic. it isn't that differences are hidden and we wouldn't notice if he didn't talk about them. Great leaders don't pretend, but face problems as they are. I guess what I'm saying is that your premise is flawed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't get that all, though it is true we all have difference perceptions for many reasons, race being but one. Having these, even if they are misperceptions, is not a sign of racism.

    And you are reading more into his statement than there is. Highlighting the trouble with understanding each other is not racist. You can't advance understanding if you pretend there is nothing to talk about and find insult everywhere. What he attempted and said was quite proper and not at all racist.

    I suggest he has mentioned many similarities, but those are seldom problematic. it isn't that differences are hidden and we wouldn't notice if he didn't talk about them. Great leaders don't pretend, but face problems as they are. I guess what I'm saying is that your premise is flawed.
    That would be wonderful if he actually faced problems as they are. Unfortunately, he allows his racial stereotype of white people drive how he percieves the problems. Great leaders see things for what they are and, yes, face problems head-on. Unfortunately, Obama is incapable of that key first step of accurate perception. He sees racial strife where none exists, which damages the entire movement because it encourages those unattached to it to be apathetic to true racial strife. In short, he cries wolf too much. You have several examples of him crying wolf, which include his professor friend's arrest and the TM debacle. Both times he cried wolf based off his flawed perceptions of the event. Those flawed perceptions are driven by racial bigotry, for which he did not allow adequate time to correct before crying wolf. Eventually, you have to face up to the fact that this emperor is naked. While he may, to some people, talk a great game of being post-racial, his actions tell a different story.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Wouldn't it be nice if the day comes when we are on our deathbeds a man could come with exact amount of time we spent arguing about who isn't and who is not racist and what is and what is not racist and what defines racism etc...etc....etc.....

    I have a feeling we would weep over the time wasted on it all, honestly I do. wasted

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