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Thread: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, you have to actually do the math before you can claim you did math. Show your work.
    See my post to j.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More items insured would be better insurance, so did your insurance improve? Remember the condition I put on my comment, : if your insurance wasn't better.

    And yes, better has something to do with. Insurance that doesn't do the job is worthless. I was talking to someone yesterday who had cheap insurance, but admitted if anything huge happened, they would largely be dropped and most not paid for, which begs the question, why are you paying at all. So quality does matter.

    And yes, this is really your employers insurance. You just benefit from it. Let me tell you how it likely worked. The normal increase was a low 1.5% (ours), the penalty was then levied and your employer, who could have paid it (as could have the insurance company), decided to pass that on as well (it's only temporary but will likely be forgotten and taken as permanent). This would likely be around 2%. Together, that would be about 3.5%. If you have been paying attention you might not know that's actually a typical yearly increase. Ten years ago we increased 50%. Then for awhile had double digit increases. And the past few years they've been around 3-4%. Unlikely that yours has been that much different.

    So all told, not significant. Hardly a disaster, and hardly outside the norm.

    So, I have answer you, but let me give a link:

    They point out that the 3 percent growth from 2009 to 2010 was unusually low. While it’s tough to discern a clear, long-term trend in the growth rates, the annual increase was holding steady at around 5 percent or 5.5 percent from 2007 to 2009. The growth rates had been at 10 percent and higher from 2000 to 2004. (See our chart below, which uses Kaiser’s employer survey numbers.) So, the 3 percent growth rate was “abnormally low,” says John Sheils, senior vice president of The Lewin Group, a subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group that operates independently of the health care company. He says it “would stand to reason that we’d get a boost” this year, possibly due to recovering losses or catching up on the cost of new equipment.

    (snip)

    But Sheils says he tells people to look at the projection for long-term growth — 6 percent, or 6.5 percent. That’s not that different from the increases that occurred several years before the law was passed.

    FactChecking Health Insurance Premiums

    So, claims of it being to ACA are dubious. If any, only a small amount and still below normal.

    They aren't dubious. You have provided a 2010/2011 evaluation of the 9% increase and that 6% of that was a rise in health care cost and that they expect a 6% increase to continue.

    Fine, great... now square that with the 30-400% increases we are seeing in 2013.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    They aren't dubious. You have provided a 2010/2011 evaluation of the 9% increase and that 6% of that was a rise in health care cost and that they expect a 6% increase to continue.

    Fine, great... now square that with the 30-400% increases we are seeing in 2013.
    Nothing has changed yet, so tell me why they would change.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    There are plenty of others out there with similar stories to mine, and like I pointed out before, some of the lowest projected rises in premium under the ACA would be 40% to 50% on up all the way to over 100% increases. As for my insurance, it did change. My premium rose about 50%, and my deductible doubled per family member. Plus, I am now notified that as of next year when the waiver for business expires it may be my turn to lose coverage.

    Now, I am a simple guy Joe, you know that. I can't see how you can tell me I am benefiting from this? I am 51 years old, my kids are grown, and I don't plan on having any others in my life, so I don't need maternity care, nor do I need pediatric medical, or dental care, plus I have a vasectomy, and have been married for over 25 years to the same wonderful woman, so I am pretty sure we don't need birth control like condoms either....

    All of this stuff costs money, and you are relying on the young healthy kids to come on in and cover the costs, I get that, but you don't know that they are or will. Its a gamble. And one that so far neither of us can say is taking place or not.
    Found a possible explain for you j:

    All these cancellations were prompted by a requirement from Covered California, the state's new insurance exchange. The state didn't want to give insurance companies the opportunity to hold on to the healthiest patients for up to a year, keeping them out of the larger risk pool that will influence future rates.

    Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out - latimes.com


    So, it might be actions by your state. As I said, keeping healthy people on the rolls is what keeps the price down. When the state says they can't hold on to them, they panicked. Good to live in Iowa.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    I agree with his statement equating Obamacare to slavery - as it is, though certainly not approaching the horrors of slavery in the past.

    Prior to Obamacare, everyone was born free. Under Obamacare, all adult Americans and every American born is born indebted to corporations selected by the President. All citizens must do labor, every year, to give money - hundreds or thousands of dollars a year - to at least one of those corporations. The only alternative to doing so and remaining a citizen acting legally is to pay an anual bribe to the country - which you have to able every year to pay that bribe.

    Being born or otherwise forced into servitude labor your entire life is one definition of slavery.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Found a possible explain for you j:

    All these cancellations were prompted by a requirement from Covered California, the state's new insurance exchange. The state didn't want to give insurance companies the opportunity to hold on to the healthiest patients for up to a year, keeping them out of the larger risk pool that will influence future rates.

    Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out - latimes.com


    So, it might be actions by your state. As I said, keeping healthy people on the rolls is what keeps the price down. When the state says they can't hold on to them, they panicked. Good to live in Iowa.
    So, because you found a small piece of the article that blamed "some" of the possible excuse for increases on Jerry Brown in CA., I think it interesting that you chose to ignore this on page 1 of your own article....

    "Fullerton resident Jennifer Harris thought she had a great deal, paying $98 a month for an individual plan through Health Net Inc. She got a rude surprise this month when the company said it would cancel her policy at the end of this year. Her current plan does not conform with the new federal rules, which require more generous levels of coverage.

    Now Harris, a self-employed lawyer, must shop for replacement insurance. The cheapest plan she has found will cost her $238 a month. She and her husband don't qualify for federal premium subsidies because they earn too much money, about $80,000 a year combined.

    "It doesn't seem right to make the middle class pay so much more in order to give health insurance to everybody else," said Harris, who is three months pregnant. "This increase is simply not affordable."

    On balance, many Americans will benefit from the healthcare expansion. They are guaranteed coverage regardless of their medical history. And lower-income families will gain access to comprehensive coverage at little or no cost.

    The federal government picks up much of the tab through an expansion of Medicaid and subsidies to people earning up to four times the federal poverty level. That's up to $46,000 for an individual or $94,000 for a family of four.

    But middle-income consumers face an estimated 30% rate increase, on average, in California due to several factors tied to the healthcare law."


    On balance the article is talking about things that the Federal law is mandating, NOT California....But keep reaching for excuses. Cali also doesn't explain Florida, NJ, MI, etc.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, because you found a small piece of the article that blamed "some" of the possible excuse for increases on Jerry Brown in CA., I think it interesting that you chose to ignore this on page 1 of your own article....

    "Fullerton resident Jennifer Harris thought she had a great deal, paying $98 a month for an individual plan through Health Net Inc. She got a rude surprise this month when the company said it would cancel her policy at the end of this year. Her current plan does not conform with the new federal rules, which require more generous levels of coverage.

    Now Harris, a self-employed lawyer, must shop for replacement insurance. The cheapest plan she has found will cost her $238 a month. She and her husband don't qualify for federal premium subsidies because they earn too much money, about $80,000 a year combined.

    "It doesn't seem right to make the middle class pay so much more in order to give health insurance to everybody else," said Harris, who is three months pregnant. "This increase is simply not affordable."

    On balance, many Americans will benefit from the healthcare expansion. They are guaranteed coverage regardless of their medical history. And lower-income families will gain access to comprehensive coverage at little or no cost.

    The federal government picks up much of the tab through an expansion of Medicaid and subsidies to people earning up to four times the federal poverty level. That's up to $46,000 for an individual or $94,000 for a family of four.

    But middle-income consumers face an estimated 30% rate increase, on average, in California due to several factors tied to the healthcare law."


    On balance the article is talking about things that the Federal law is mandating, NOT California....But keep reaching for excuses. Cali also doesn't explain Florida, NJ, MI, etc.
    Yes, it gives a rational. I read what you put up there. read it closely. If they had been able to keep well people, there would be less increase, if not not no increase. But she went from a useless coverage to one that actually does the job as well. The issue isn't just about the monthly fee, but what you get, which is why I orignally mentioned increased coverage. But it isn't the mandate itself in the article, but the states poor response to it. As other states, like mine, have the same mandate without going over the edge, you can't logically excuse the state's response.


    However, this is the closes thing I can find to explain why things are so different for you than here.

    I know you want to bemoan, but do you have another explanation?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    With 80% plus actually being shuffled to new medicaid roles, and of those left the sick ones coming in, are they really getting more "customers", or are they gaining more liability?
    I still think there was deception involved going all the way back to its inception. This "urgency" that obama conveyed with regard to how badly this was needed was, in my opinion, false. For obama, the top issue that he placed above all, was this bill that he insisted must be passed before anyone reads it - but it was too long for anyone to read, and obama has the audacity to say "just pass it, and you can read it later". I'm not making this up - I heard him say it myself on national television! It's a law! ...and he says just read it later! *
    So, how valid was this "urgency" at a time when everyone but obama was worried about the sequester and being at the brink of financial collapse? Was this the right moment to insist on passing a monstrously expensive bill? Let's look at the purported "urgency". Last I checked, there wasn't just a bunch of americans who died because they were refused medical care. There are free clinics in every major city. It is unlawful to deny treatment at an ER. I had great free medical care. Visits were free, even if you are seeing a specialist, and I was on 6 different heart meds that cost $8 to refill all 6. If anybody reading this did not have access to free medical care, I'd like to know what city and state you live in so I can do some research. I think it's all BS from the beginning.

    *This is the kind of system you support? If everybody was like me, none of this stupid sht would ever happen. There would be a new amendment: No law shall be longer than 1000 words, and any that are shall be officially repealed. If you need more words than that to describe a law, then you're getting into areas that government doesn't belong.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, it gives a rational. I read what you put up there. read it closely. If they had been able to keep well people, there would be less increase, if not not no increase. But she went from a useless coverage to one that actually does the job as well. The issue isn't just about the monthly fee, but what you get, which is why I orignally mentioned increased coverage. But it isn't the mandate itself in the article, but the states poor response to it. As other states, like mine, have the same mandate without going over the edge, you can't logically excuse the state's response.


    However, this is the closes thing I can find to explain why things are so different for you than here.

    I know you want to bemoan, but do you have another explanation?
    That's not how it's supposed to work Joe. Read the 10th amendment.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, it gives a rational. I read what you put up there. read it closely. If they had been able to keep well people, there would be less increase, if not not no increase. But she went from a useless coverage to one that actually does the job as well. The issue isn't just about the monthly fee, but what you get, which is why I orignally mentioned increased coverage. But it isn't the mandate itself in the article, but the states poor response to it. As other states, like mine, have the same mandate without going over the edge, you can't logically excuse the state's response.


    However, this is the closes thing I can find to explain why things are so different for you than here.

    I know you want to bemoan, but do you have another explanation?

    LOL. What made that lady's coverage "useless"? Is it because she might have had to fork over $9 a month to buy birth control pills?

    That lady made clear part of her "issue" was the monthly fee. Where in Obamadon'tcare does it state you get to decide her "issues"?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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