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Thread: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by sKiTzo View Post
    This was exactly the response I expected from you. You didn't disappoint! Your response is nothing but generalization about how wrong I am and how right you are - but all I wanted were specific examples - that means cherry pick the exact words or phrases that you feel are "open to interpretation". The other claim you made was that the founding fathers "didn't anticipate the questions of today". You said equal protection comes to mind, which conflicts with previous amendments? So what you're really saying is that they didn't anticipate amendments that conflict with or seek to change previous amendments. Or, they did actually, and warned that we would have to protect against these future traitors.

    Still waiting to discuss which part exactly you think might be open for interpretation. That means you're going to post the words, phrases, or paragraph that isn't clear in its meaning. Because that's what you do when you make a claim that someone disagrees with.
    Again, I think you're looking at it wrong. Neither one of us being Constitutional scholars, the best evidence of what I say is that it has been challenged from day one. If it were clear, do you think there would be so many challenges?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're a funny dude.

    There has been no disaster yet. That seems a simple enough point.
    True, and to be honest, "disaster" is a subjective term, is it not? The way in which the implementation is written into the law, the "disaster" (which I think is a strong term), may be a trickle, or a frog boiling exercise if you will, rather than a one time, all at once blast. And I think this was by design.

    We see today, that millions of people in the individual markets are being told that their policies do not meet standards set forth in the law, and therefore will have to be dropped, and replaced with either plans through their carrier with plans that do meet the law, or from the exchange with plans that do. These plans put forth in a study recently by Heritage, show that in 45 out of 50 states will cost more, and in some cases much more. Employers have also started sending out letters, I got one myself, that stated explicitly, that premiums starting January 1 will go up 50% from a premium today that is $47.50 per week (my share), to $74.50 per week (my share), and although my office visit co pay, and prescription co pay will remain the same through 2014, my deductible will rise from $500. per year, before 80/20 kicks in, to $1000. per year, per individual in household. This is not what was sold to me, or maybe a better term is not what I heard in 2009 from President Obama, and Speaker (at the time) Nancy Pelosi was going to be the case. Also, in that letter I received, it also went into an explanation of how during the 2014 year, another recalculation would have to be done to ensure that our plans and what they covered would would meet standards of the PPACA, and if found that they had to be changed at that point the possibilities would be even higher costs, or dropping this coverage, and re writing the available plans to meet regulations, and standards of the PPACA.

    Now, what that tells me, is that the individual plans are going through this now, and people being dropped, those with 'group plans' like myself, are going to go through this next year, and that is due to the waivers to business that were granted by Obama.

    This to me signals a disaster, and a continuing one through the next couple of years, am I wrong?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    True, and to be honest, "disaster" is a subjective term, is it not? The way in which the implementation is written into the law, the "disaster" (which I think is a strong term), may be a trickle, or a frog boiling exercise if you will, rather than a one time, all at once blast. And I think this was by design.

    We see today, that millions of people in the individual markets are being told that their policies do not meet standards set forth in the law, and therefore will have to be dropped, and replaced with either plans through their carrier with plans that do meet the law, or from the exchange with plans that do. These plans put forth in a study recently by Heritage, show that in 45 out of 50 states will cost more, and in some cases much more. Employers have also started sending out letters, I got one myself, that stated explicitly, that premiums starting January 1 will go up 50% from a premium today that is $47.50 per week (my share), to $74.50 per week (my share), and although my office visit co pay, and prescription co pay will remain the same through 2014, my deductible will rise from $500. per year, before 80/20 kicks in, to $1000. per year, per individual in household. This is not what was sold to me, or maybe a better term is not what I heard in 2009 from President Obama, and Speaker (at the time) Nancy Pelosi was going to be the case. Also, in that letter I received, it also went into an explanation of how during the 2014 year, another recalculation would have to be done to ensure that our plans and what they covered would would meet standards of the PPACA, and if found that they had to be changed at that point the possibilities would be even higher costs, or dropping this coverage, and re writing the available plans to meet regulations, and standards of the PPACA.

    Now, what that tells me, is that the individual plans are going through this now, and people being dropped, those with 'group plans' like myself, are going to go through this next year, and that is due to the waivers to business that were granted by Obama.

    This to me signals a disaster, and a continuing one through the next couple of years, am I wrong?
    While someone might call a flower out of place at a wedding reception a disaster, most reasonable people would not. So, yes, it is a strong term, a hyperbolic term in this case. Adjustments often make people uncomfortable, but to reach what would be a disaster, they ahve to be much worse off than they were. this is not likely. By most accounts, the insurance will be better not worse. More care will actually be paid for, and not merely randomly passed on to others, and and more people will actually get care.

    Again, not a perfect bill, but the term disaster is decidedly misused here.

    And logically there is no reason for your care to go up unless you're getting better care. If that is not the case, I suggest your issue is with your provider taking advantage of the situation. As more people will be enrolled, giving them more premiums, which should more than pay for preexisting conditions, the logic behind a major increase is just not there. Many years ago, before Obama, our costs doubled. This year, the total increase, with the penalty, was 2.5%. Hardly earth shaking, and less than the year before. So, I question these stories and why you're being taken advantage of.

    When the smokes clear, I suspect this will all be more hype than substance.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    While someone might call a flower out of place at a wedding reception a disaster, most reasonable people would not. So, yes, it is a strong term, a hyperbolic term in this case. Adjustments often make people uncomfortable, but to reach what would be a disaster, they ahve to be much worse off than they were. this is not likely. By most accounts, the insurance will be better not worse. More care will actually be paid for, and not merely randomly passed on to others, and and more people will actually get care.

    Again, not a perfect bill, but the term disaster is decidedly misused here.

    And logically there is no reason for your care to go up unless you're getting better care. If that is not the case, I suggest your issue is with your provider taking advantage of the situation. As more people will be enrolled, giving them more premiums, which should more than pay for preexisting conditions, the logic behind a major increase is just not there. Many years ago, before Obama, our costs doubled. This year, the total increase, with the penalty, was 2.5%. Hardly earth shaking, and less than the year before. So, I question these stories and why you're being taken advantage of.

    When the smokes clear, I suspect this will all be more hype than substance.
    I just told you what was sent to me Joe.... I can't make you believe it, but I am not as trusting of government as you seem to be...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I just told you what was sent to me Joe.... I can't make you believe it, but I am not as trusting of government as you seem to be...
    I didn't say you didn't. I said, there's no logical reason for it. I suggest that they may be taking advantage of you. Not that you were lying.

    Nor does trusting the government have anything to with it. The government didn't send you the notification.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I didn't say you didn't. I said, there's no logical reason for it. I suggest that they may be taking advantage of you. Not that you were lying.

    Nor does trusting the government have anything to with it. The government didn't send you the notification.

    No, you're right. The government though does have a role here. And as for my logical application, I don't think that is fair for you to say. After all it isn't you getting this notice. That the insurance company is taking advantage? How? If their explanation is that they must comply with the law, how is it even their call?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, you're right. The government though does have a role here. And as for my logical application, I don't think that is fair for you to say. After all it isn't you getting this notice. That the insurance company is taking advantage? How? If their explanation is that they must comply with the law, how is it even their call?
    Nothing in the law really raises their costs. Not sure what you mean about your logical application. But the law does not say raise rates. And as they are getting new customers, getting more premiums, the likelihood that there would be legitimate reasons for a rate increase are small. Like I said, unless you are now getting better insurance.

    And if I told students they need to pay me an extra $50 dollars a semester due to ACA, would you think they had the right to question me on it? What anyone says and what is should not be taken for granted. There has to be a logical rationale, and more specific than just the law being passed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nothing in the law really raises their costs.
    False. Full stop. Do not pass go.

    They are required to carry anyone off the street even if insuring them is a guaranteed loss, and they are now required to include a host of other "freebees" like birth control and wellness visits and on and on. Would you please at least learn the ACA regulations before defending them? Thanks in advance.

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nothing in the law really raises their costs. Not sure what you mean about your logical application. But the law does not say raise rates. And as they are getting new customers, getting more premiums, the likelihood that there would be legitimate reasons for a rate increase are small. Like I said, unless you are now getting better insurance.

    And if I told students they need to pay me an extra $50 dollars a semester due to ACA, would you think they had the right to question me on it? What anyone says and what is should not be taken for granted. There has to be a logical rationale, and more specific than just the law being passed.
    If the ACA is mandating through either by law, or new regulation the coverage of more items that they didn't have to provide before, would you think that would cost more? or less? Further, better has nothing to do with it, who decides "better"? Isn't that, or shouldn't that be my choice?

    Also, I think you are confusing just how much control I, individually have over a policy offered through my employer. Questions, in my experience, about coverage, or specific coverage's contained within the plan are negotiated between the employer, and the insurance company. My questions to the insurance company would result in them referring me back to my employer, who's explanation would simply be that was the best plan for the money that they could offer. So, really in the end no real answers for me, other than "well, that's what we offer, either you want it, or you don't."
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    False. Full stop. Do not pass go.

    They are required to carry anyone off the street even if insuring them is a guaranteed loss, and they are now required to include a host of other "freebees" like birth control and wellness visits and on and on. Would you please at least learn the ACA regulations before defending them? Thanks in advance.
    Good quality and all inclusive health care really is an evil thing to Americans isn't it! Why is that? Is it that Americans consider their poor and middle class fellow Americans less important in some way?

    Americans expressing their feelings on good affordable health care for all sounds more like hate than anything else. There's just no logical reason for it. And expecially when affordable universal health care for all is much more cost effective. (statistically) Americans pay more than any other country in the entire world

    When the teabaggers complain about paying too much taxes one would think that they would welcome the chance to pay less?

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