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Thread: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

  1. #61
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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Though I am very skeptical of the actual existence of a christian figure known as jesus, and i am positive that even if there was this guy preaching some of this stuff that the church and authors of the bible had little to nothing to do with him and it is all just a myth like zeus or any other god of the time. I have to say that as long as people are taking those stories to heart and believing in the loving caring jesus that accepted and forgave I don't actually care if they want to believe there was actually that guy. If they want to get into an actual scientific claim of that idea they have to face the standard of scientific method and peer reviewed findings. People believing is not good enough to get it taught in science class. Also, if they wish to push that belief on me they had better damn well have something better than the bible to back themselves up. It is far more likely that it is true the bivble was written by a group of people who saw the power religion held over people and used it to start up a religion that would empower them in the world. It is much more likely that happened than the son of god actually came down and performed miracles that have no evidence to support them, and even evidence contradicting them

    The religious have to realize that they bring things like this upon themselves when they stray into the area of science. These things are not looked into because people hate christianity, but rather because they are treating the stories with scientific quests for evidence. If they want to maintain their faith with out this scrutiny they have to withdraw from scientific claims. If you want to go to your church and sing songs to god and jesus and uplift your heart and make yourself feel better about your place in the world and the universe I want you to enjoy. Even if you are fooling yourself as long as it stays personal and you are not giving all your money to a cult leader, or hurting others enjoy the heck out of it. I am even good with people coming over and inviting me to join them. Just take no thank you for an answer. Don't threaten me with hell because your argument sucked. Just go have some fun, and I will go have my fun. Keep it for yourself and not for me.
    Brava! Brava! Excellent post!










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  2. #62
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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    You mean the guy who wrote this book? He's not a historian, and actual historians and bible scholars compare him to Dan Brown
    And you make these statements without personal knowledge and without due diligence having not read the book. You state as fact something some other guy, who may in fact not have read the book either, states a factual. You question the shoddy research of Atwell while not doing any research yourself. You are willfully ignorant by your own admission and yet you expect people here to see your position. You don't really have a position other than being a boisterous contrarian.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  3. #63
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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by laska View Post
    You and Summerwind are not understanding my point. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that the gospel of Jesus Christ is eternal and existed prior to the creation of the earth. From a LDS perspective our spirits are the literal offspring of God and all of us existed and lived with our heavenly parents prior to being born on the earth. In the pre-mortal world God offered to us to accept or not the Plan of Salvation which entailed we fall and become mortal, use our free agency to choose between good and evil. The central part of the Plan of Salvation is that our eldest brother, God's first born, the great Jehovah volunteered to perform an Atonement so that the effects of the fall from eternal sphere, becoming mortal which brings death, could be overcome. Without an Atonement we couldn't on our own erase the fact that we will break laws that pertain to eternal light of our spirits, sow the seeds of death, as we have walked off the cliff and can't take back that fact.

    The LDS scriptures teach that after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden of Eden they were commanded by God to sacrifice a first born male lamb without blemish on a routine basis. Later, maybe after several years of routinely doing this sacrifice God asked them if they knew why they were doing this. They said no. He then explained to them that this was symbolic of Christ who would be born in the future. They were taught the gospel of Christ in its fullness. They knew that the Savior would be born of a virgin, be the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh, and a bunch of other details about His earthly mission that would come thousands of years later. Adam and Eve taught their offspring the gospel. Many of the offspring of Adam and Eve fell away from the true gospel, some never accepted it, many others left over time. The LDS believe there were even complete apostasies where the legal gospel from Heaven was no longer on the earth and the Heavens had to restore it.

    The LDS and many other Christians see the Old Testament as not a different religion from the NT religion but the same. The Old Testament is pre-Christ and is looking towards the Savior. The mood of the text is justice, because that is why we need a Savior, natural laws because of the fall have been broken. All the prophets testify of Christ and the Biblical characters are symbolic of Him. That is why you see so many similarities to stuff that happened in Jesus' mortal life and their lives. The NT is the Savior arriving in the world and the mood of the text is mercy. Anyway since Adam and Eve knew from the beginning many of the details of Jesus' life thousands of years before it happened, you would expect, if this is true, that there would be traces of the original religion found in later religions.
    this doesnt impact anythign "i" said in anyway what so ever
    did you have a point that relates to what i said
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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    ok so it it had nothing to do with my post directly as usual since all (or at least a super vase majority) talk about religion is a mythicist position thanks
    I don't think you understand what that word means

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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I don't think you understand what that word means
    has usual what you think would be factually wrong
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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    And you make these statements without personal knowledge and without due diligence having not read the book.
    We already covered this on the other thread A) the man has made his theories and positions known outside the book. B) he is not a historian C) Actual biblical scholars and historians have addressed his work, from a variety of backgrounds, and have nothing positive to say about it.

    So between the facts that he has no real background in the area of study, the issues I can recognize even with my paltry knowledge of the field, the well worn "conspiracy" formula to his claims and means of promotion, and the fact that actual experts compare him to dan brown, make me pretty confident in dismissing his work

    You state as fact something some other guy, who may in fact not have read the book either, states a factual.
    They are familier enough with his theories to actually address them and are actual experts in the field. So yes, I tend to concede to their knowledge


    You question the shoddy research of Atwell while not doing any research yourself.
    I did do research


    You are willfully ignorant by your own admission and yet you expect people here to see your position. You don't really have a position other than being a boisterous contrarian.
    You seem pretty emotionally invested in Atwill's theories. Maybe do a bit of self-examination and ask yourself if you are being objective in your analysis of it. As for me, Jesus being a myth, or not, doesn't matter to me. But, I will address an argument when I see issues with it and doubly so when it takes on the character of conspiracy chatter

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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    has usual what you think would be factually wrong
    you know what else is factual? That claiming and asserting things as factual does not make them so. In common usage, particularly in this context, mythicist refers to the type of chatter about jesus contained in films like Zeitgeist and claims things like

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) its wasnt always "christ" there were many names and setups (immaculate conception, real conception),(son of god, god himself), (wise men, kings, sisterhood) etc etc
    2.) the so called birth, conceptions etc were 100s of years off
    3.) so that doesnt explain anything

    now mind you im still a christian but the platform for Christianity existed way before Christianity many times in many forms which makes everything suspect and even more thin that it already was.

    but im also not a person that must fake, believe or act it all has to be true. Thats NOT what religion is about nor does it need to be.

  8. #68
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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1.)you know what else is factual? That claiming and asserting things as factual does not make them so.
    2.) In common usage, particularly in this context, mythicist refers to the type of chatter about jesus contained in films like Zeitgeist and claims things like
    1.) very true, good thing that has nothing to do with anything i said
    2.) thanks for your opinion on its common usage but this also doesn't impact anything i said
    do you ever make posts that actually have to do directly with what you quote?

    Fact is i understand the word, its definition and used it properly. Hopefully your confusion is cleared up now.
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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) very true, good thing that has nothing to do with anything i said
    2.) thanks for your opinion on its common usage but this also doesn't impact anything i said
    do you ever make posts that actually have to do directly with what you quote?

    Fact is i understand the word, its definition and used it properly. Hopefully your confusion is cleared up now.
    actually you were advocating the mythicist position. I pointed out how very few academics give it credence and the majority of type on it is conspiracy non-sense. So clearly if I was directly addressing what you wrote, then "it has something to do with something you said"

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    Re: Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1.)actually you were advocating the mythicist position.
    2.)I pointed out how very few academics give it credence and the majority of type on it is conspiracy non-sense.
    3.) So clearly if I was directly addressing what you wrote, then "it has something to do with something you said"
    1.) you are welcome to this opinion
    2.) which is meaningless to what i said
    3.) hence you dilemma since it didnt you assumed and what i actually said wasnt related to your assumption.
    I wonder if you have this communication issue in person too? Ive seen you have it in print with many posters.
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