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Moody's offers different view on debt limit

CanadaJohn said:
Obama liberals don't bruise, they're featherweight. More like gnats at a barbeque.
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You're right, but banging your head against a wall all day can't be pleasant...
 
Deuce said:
Numbers:

2013 total revenue was 2700 billion

Interest: 246
Social Security: 882
Medicare: 940
DOD: 672

Total: 2740B

This means total elimination of the following:

Department of Education
Department of Veterans Affairs
Department of Housing and Urban Development
Department of State and Other International Programs
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Energy
Department of Justice
Department of Agriculture
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
National Intelligence Program
Department of Transportation
Department of the Treasury
Department of the Interior
Department of Labor
Department of Commerce
Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works
Environmental Protection Agency
National Science Foundation
Small Business Administration
Corporation for National and Community Service
Disaster costs
Other spending

Tell me how this ****ing works, right-wingers.
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You advocate continued spending like a crackwhore. Tell us how THAT is supposed to ****ing work, leftwinger.

Now...if we are being SERIOUS...
1-Several of those departments could and should be outright eliminated (Redundant agencies where states already manage responsibilities such as Education, HUD, Transportation for starters.
2-Cuts across the board would be definitely required (and agencies realigned Labor and Commerce, EPA and DoE, etc).
3-Sundowned tax increases would also be a must

It would take about 10 years but if we were actually SERIOUS, the debt would be paid down (not eliminated but paid down), social services would be returned to the states where they belong, and government would be back under control. Needed, essential, limited.
 
Deuce said:
US Federal debt and my credit card are comparable in which ways, exactly?
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For one, the debt on either one can't possible get paid done by wasteful over spending.
 
rathi said:
Moody's also believed that subprime mortgages would be unlikely to default. Color me not willing to bet the nations economy on their word, again.
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A totally stupid and uneducated opinion, given that everyone got it wrong. So what you're really doing is using a total bull**** opinion, to cover your ass in supporting the bull**** being sold about the debt ceiling. Your disingenuousness is duly noted.

http://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-testimony/2010-0602-Weill.pdf
 
head of joaquin said:
Exhibit A in why the tea party will drive the US into default and cause the second GOP economic meltdown in 5 years.
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And all the while bragging about their control AND at the very same time saying it's Obama's fault.
 
NIMBY said:
Janet Yellen supports deregulation so the "doves" in her own Democratic party are uneasy.
Janet Yellen is a woman so those in the Republican party are uneasy.
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i could be wrong, but I am pretty sure yellen was one of the people warning of how deregulation would cause the meltdown we had, and one of the supporters of things like glass steagal. This is why she was not first on the list. I am asking because I would love some clasrification on this if she is all about deregulation. It seemed like an odd choice for Obama to even have her on the list considering she was not your typical banks can do no wrong person.
 
Deuce said:
Numbers:

2013 total revenue was 2700 billion

Interest: 246
Social Security: 882
Medicare: 940
DOD: 672

Total: 2740B

This means total elimination of the following:

Department of Education
Department of Veterans Affairs
Department of Housing and Urban Development
Department of State and Other International Programs
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Energy
Department of Justice
Department of Agriculture
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
National Intelligence Program
Department of Transportation
Department of the Treasury
Department of the Interior
Department of Labor
Department of Commerce
Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works
Environmental Protection Agency
National Science Foundation
Small Business Administration
Corporation for National and Community Service
Disaster costs
Other spending

Tell me how this ****ing works, right-wingers.
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How many of those are enumerated powers by the constitution? We should remove all that are not. That is a first step to solving our debt problem.
 
tererun said:
i could be wrong, but I am pretty sure yellen was one of the people warning of how deregulation would cause the meltdown we had, and one of the supporters of things like glass steagal. This is why she was not first on the list. I am asking because I would love some clasrification on this if she is all about deregulation. It seemed like an odd choice for Obama to even have her on the list considering she was not your typical banks can do no wrong person.
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Actually, she supported the repeal of Glass-Steagall...
 
Baralis said:
How many of those are enumerated powers by the constitution? We should remove all that are not. That is a first step to solving our debt problem.
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in our beginning there were 4 departments, it was not until 1849 ,until the next department was created the dept of interior, now we have 15 departments, which most are not authorized by the constitution.
 
Baralis said:
How many of those are enumerated powers by the constitution? We should remove all that are not. That is a first step to solving our debt problem.
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i guess using the concept of concurrent powers and implied powers is not going to fly.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
i guess using the concept of concurrent powers and implied powers is not going to fly.
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no...... because the founders state they MUST be enumerated powers.

“This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 83

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1798

“[Congressional jurisdiction of power] is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any.” – James Madison, Federalist 14
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Actually, she supported the repeal of Glass-Steagall...
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Yellen hasn't ever been shy about making her thoughts known, either! :thumbs: Summers may not be the best choice at this time, IMO.

Greetings, AP. :2wave: Hope all is well in your world.
 
Hicup said:
Baloney, pure rubbish, Sir. Moody's is correct and as I've been saying to anyone that has an ounce of grey matter; the USA will NOT, and I repeat for the umpteenth time, will NOT default. All it means is that the USA cannot borrow anymore money. It can pay it's debts with interest, and all that needs to be done is to prioritize how that money gets spent, period. Think of it like a budget. This is how much we make, this is how much we owe each month, so honey, looks like no cable tv, and cell phones this month. No eating out at Denny's, or McDonalds, and certainly not getting that massage at the spa. If we cut back, we'll be ok..

Obama, and anyone in the world that believes his lie about default is a moron!


Tim-
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I do agree it is time to cut back, and you seem to have the idea down but let us put in some things to help you out here. It means no more big wasteful military industrial contracts. no more country building and wars to stop muslim terrorists abroad. No screwing around with Syria. It means we will lose strength in the dollar and china and russia will strengthen their world position, and we might lose the default currency for things like oil purchasing which will drive demand for the dollar even lower and reduce our buying power. It will mean the end of corporate welfare and tax breaks because we can no longer squeeze any more money from the middle class and will need to rely on revenue over credit so corporations will have to pay more taxes along with the rich. It will mean a reduction in our military presence all over the world. It will mean finding ways to end our privatized prison system and decriminalizing things like drugs because we simply do not have the revenue to keep up the jail population. It will mean a decrease in the spending power of the middle class and re-entering a recession and perhaps a full depression because commerce will slow to a trickle as we pay. If we do not fund programs like police and the welfare system it will mean riots for food and a increase in criminal activity like theft. It will increase our ghetto size because we will add more poor people from the middle class.

Anything else aside from pulling back on both democratic and republican spending is a half assed solution which we will not be able to borrow money to overcome. I am all for it. I am totally for pulling back to pay our bills and stopping the borrowing. The conservatives have to recognize that means the end to american exceptionalism and voluntariluy lowering our status from a 1st world country to a third world nation just so we can pay our bills. Don't start making decisions you cannot live with because you will not be getting the things you like while everyone else suffers. You will have to suck it up and deal just like the rest of us. The only way you will get what you want is to have the republicans start to borrow money to pay for their expensive programs. It will be real conservative spending and not the BS the right wing calls conservative. Now let us all jump off that cliff together because I will chain myself to the republicans, but you are sure as hell leading the way off the cliff.
 
polgara said:
Yellen hasn't ever been shy about making her thoughts known, either! :thumbs: Summers may not be the best choice at this time, IMO.

Greetings, AP. :2wave: Hope all is well in your world.
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Good evening pg. Yellen appears one to toe the party line without delay...
 
Hicup said:
Baloney, pure rubbish, Sir. Moody's is correct and as I've been saying to anyone that has an ounce of grey matter; the USA will NOT, and I repeat for the umpteenth time, will NOT default. All it means is that the USA cannot borrow anymore money. It can pay it's debts with interest, and all that needs to be done is to prioritize how that money gets spent, period. Think of it like a budget. This is how much we make, this is how much we owe each month, so honey, looks like no cable tv, and cell phones this month. No eating out at Denny's, or McDonalds, and certainly not getting that massage at the spa. If we cut back, we'll be ok..

Obama, and anyone in the world that believes his lie about default is a moron!


Tim-
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Oh dear.

The debt limit is about paying for goods and services the state bought on a "promise". Do this and you'll get paid.

What did I say in my comment? If the debt limit is not raised, yes, the current debt can be serviced but the govt still has outstanding bills to pay, which, if it doesn't raise the debt ceiling and doens't borrow money to pay those bills, then a lot of people, businesses, will not get their money and will suffer cause of this.

The govt won't default on it's current debt, but it will default on it's outstanding debts.

You don't think this is a problem? fine, tell your congressman to not vote for the debt ceiling. Let the debt ceiling at the same level as it is now and let's see what happens.
And once the fiasco will be over and the US's reputation will be no better than Argentina's in the 1960s, then maybe, just maybe, reasonable people will take power to fix things instead of the idiots who are now in Congress. And while all of them are idiots, the biggest idiots are on the republican side of the congress.
 
He cannot provide one..Though she may be the first Democrat, she is anything but toe-the-line. Exhibit A is that she is a Bernanke disciple, a Repub appointee..Exhibit B is Yellin is Obama's 2nd choice, after Repubs shot down the 1st. Minority rule in Both chambers.
tererun said:
I don't doubt that some things I have heard may be incorrect, but I would love a link on that one.
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Rainman05 said:
You don't think this is a problem? fine, tell your congressman to not vote for the debt ceiling. Let the debt ceiling at the same level as it is now and let's see what happens.
And once the fiasco will be over and the US's reputation will be no better than Argentina's in the 1960s, then maybe, just maybe, reasonable people will take power to fix things instead of the idiots who are now in Congress. And while all of them are idiots, the biggest idiots are on the republican side of the congress.
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Certain moderators consider it partisan hackery to point out that INTEREST on TREASURY BILLS DOUBLED last night.
Every Business leader, including their KOCH funders, opposes this way of killing a law; pure hackery on my part.
 
NIMBY said:
He cannot provide one..Though she may be the first Democrat, she is anything but toe-the-line. Exhibit A is that she is a Bernanke disciple, a Repub appointee..Exhibit B is Yellin is Obama's 2nd choice, after Repubs shot down the 1st. Minority rule in Both chambers.
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I was just wondering if there was anything direct because she has seemed to been able to predict a few things, and certainly seems better than the past few choices. I really do not expect a good choice from Obama at this point. He is pretty much gone bush 2 at this point. From what I have heard of her she at least offers up the warnings of danger from unregulated business and banking. It is better than his last choice who still could not understand the collapse. She seems to be one of the more preferable ones of his choices even is it is not great. But like I said i do not expect great to come at this point, and I fully understand that there is far worse from the loonie birds on the right.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
That's why I stated the the system is currently out of balance. To say you don't need or want government affecting your business is the naive point of view. Without it you have no currency, no national payment clearinghouse, no protection for your property, etc...
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You know that's not what I meant but, in truth, business could develop those things for itself. Remember, I didn't say government has no effect on business and economy. I just said it wasn't a partnership and it isn't.
 
Deuce said:
You can't make the debt payments and social security payments and operate our military on existing revenue streams. Well, maybe you can squeeze in those three items but basically nothing else. Air traffic control? TSA? FBI? Highway funding? Which do you think we should just stop?
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If you managed the money like a normal responsible person does their own, you could pay for it all and buy everybody in the United States a new TV.

The money squandered by the government is staggering.
 
Erod said:
If you managed the money like a normal responsible person does their own, you could pay for it all and buy everybody in the United States a new TV.

The money squandered by the government is staggering.
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Actually most of the government has very strict accounting practices and are subject to good audits. It's hard to steal a pencil from some agencies.

The only exception is the military, which has never been audited and doesn't even produce books that are GAAP quality. I repeat, the DOD has never been audited and they produce such bad books and records, they currently can't be audited. So we don't even have a handle on the amount the military wastes. It's essentially a rogue agency spending money without any accountability.

Before we cut a dime from useful programs we should require the DoD to provide a GAAP accounting, and we can start cutting there.
 
NIMBY said:
Janet Yellen supports deregulation so the "doves" in her own Democratic party are uneasy.
Janet Yellen is a woman so those in the Republican party are uneasy.
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What about her being a woman would make Republicans uneasy?
 
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