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Thread: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    He cannot provide one..Though she may be the first Democrat, she is anything but toe-the-line. Exhibit A is that she is a Bernanke disciple, a Repub appointee..Exhibit B is Yellin is Obama's 2nd choice, after Repubs shot down the 1st. Minority rule in Both chambers.
    I was just wondering if there was anything direct because she has seemed to been able to predict a few things, and certainly seems better than the past few choices. I really do not expect a good choice from Obama at this point. He is pretty much gone bush 2 at this point. From what I have heard of her she at least offers up the warnings of danger from unregulated business and banking. It is better than his last choice who still could not understand the collapse. She seems to be one of the more preferable ones of his choices even is it is not great. But like I said i do not expect great to come at this point, and I fully understand that there is far worse from the loonie birds on the right.

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    That's why I stated the the system is currently out of balance. To say you don't need or want government affecting your business is the naive point of view. Without it you have no currency, no national payment clearinghouse, no protection for your property, etc...
    You know that's not what I meant but, in truth, business could develop those things for itself. Remember, I didn't say government has no effect on business and economy. I just said it wasn't a partnership and it isn't.

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You can't make the debt payments and social security payments and operate our military on existing revenue streams. Well, maybe you can squeeze in those three items but basically nothing else. Air traffic control? TSA? FBI? Highway funding? Which do you think we should just stop?
    If you managed the money like a normal responsible person does their own, you could pay for it all and buy everybody in the United States a new TV.

    The money squandered by the government is staggering.

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    If you managed the money like a normal responsible person does their own, you could pay for it all and buy everybody in the United States a new TV.

    The money squandered by the government is staggering.
    Actually most of the government has very strict accounting practices and are subject to good audits. It's hard to steal a pencil from some agencies.

    The only exception is the military, which has never been audited and doesn't even produce books that are GAAP quality. I repeat, the DOD has never been audited and they produce such bad books and records, they currently can't be audited. So we don't even have a handle on the amount the military wastes. It's essentially a rogue agency spending money without any accountability.

    Before we cut a dime from useful programs we should require the DoD to provide a GAAP accounting, and we can start cutting there.

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Janet Yellen supports deregulation so the "doves" in her own Democratic party are uneasy.
    Janet Yellen is a woman so those in the Republican party are uneasy.
    What about her being a woman would make Republicans uneasy?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Repub ratings on women's issue is another point Reince priebus noted that needs help..
    The Repub Congressman who mentally abused a FEMALE ranger..
    If you haven't noticed a different tone to women than men from the GOP, .........
    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    What about her being a woman would make Republicans uneasy?
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Actually most of the government has very strict accounting practices and are subject to good audits. It's hard to steal a pencil from some agencies.

    The only exception is the military, which has never been audited and doesn't even produce books that are GAAP quality. I repeat, the DOD has never been audited and they produce such bad books and records, they currently can't be audited. So we don't even have a handle on the amount the military wastes. It's essentially a rogue agency spending money without any accountability.

    Before we cut a dime from useful programs we should require the DoD to provide a GAAP accounting, and we can start cutting there.

    so even though the military does have waste, we all know this,...... but it is a constitutional entity, and social programs are not, the military needs to be cut, and no social programs.

    i say we cut them both.

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Have you seen REINCE PRIEBUS lately?
    Is Ted Cruz in on the economic talks with his buddies in the Senate?
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Actually most of the government has very strict accounting practices and are subject to good audits. It's hard to steal a pencil from some agencies.

    The only exception is the military, which has never been audited and doesn't even produce books that are GAAP quality. I repeat, the DOD has never been audited and they produce such bad books and records, they currently can't be audited. So we don't even have a handle on the amount the military wastes. It's essentially a rogue agency spending money without any accountability.

    Before we cut a dime from useful programs we should require the DoD to provide a GAAP accounting, and we can start cutting there.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Lets back up.

    The US finances it's private debt through TNotes, TBonds, TBills etc... Some of those come due every month. That means that we need to sell some percentage of our old debt every month in addition to any new debt. Now, the Treasury paid off 7.5Trillion in maturing debt in 2013, and was forced to issue 8.3 trillion in new debt.

    Roll Over Plan: Treasury Needed to Pay Off Record $7.5T in Maturing Debt in FY 2013, Issued $8.3T New Debt; Increased Net Debt $777B | CNS News
    (from a right wing news source even)

    And here's the interest
    Government - Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

    We're in a situation now, where half of the debt is being serviced every year. This currently costs us 400 Billion per year or 7% of the US budget. Failing to raise the debt limit will increase the price of TNotes, TBills, and TBonds. This will immediately increase the cost to finance about half of the debt. Thus instead of 400 Billion per year, we're looking at 600-800 Billion per year to finance our debt. This is money effectively taken out of the US economy which would take an additional 2% or so out of the GDP.

    So now it's 2014. We have a bunch of problems. The US economy is now in a steep recession meaning revenues are say 400Billion lower than 2013. Furthermore, the debt costs another 300Billion more to finance. That's like taking 700 Billion out of our current budget. At this point, the drag of government debt will make it impossible to ever grow or cut our way to a balanced budget.

    At this point we'll have to inflate our way out of our debt, basically giving all of us a huge haircut. We will have effectively foreclosed on ourselves.
    I've been saying for quite some time now to friends, family and co-workers - pretty much anyone who would listen - that the primary way our government has been raising revenue to pay its debt lately hasn't been through collecting income taxes. It's been through the short-term sell of Treasury bonds. The crazy thing is we really don't have much of a choice right now.

    Both sides of the political divide are right. We do have a spending problem. But we also have a revenue problem. Those who only want to see one side of the equation are missing the big picture. We're not collecting enough in federal income taxes to meet all of our financial obligations, and even if we cut government spending to the bare bones it still wouldn't be enough. The Treasury does need to collect more revenue. Selling Treasuries has been a stop-gap measure, but it can't last for long. Sooner or later, we'll have to make a significant change to our economic policies to bring in more revenue while trimming federal expenditures. Otherwise, not even the public will be able to carry the debt. Will it mean some programs get sliced? Yes. Some departments get merged or terminated? That should be part of the plan, yes. Will it mean higher taxes? Yes, but you can't put that burden squarely on the wealth-class any more than you can continue expecting the middle-class to pay a higher ratio of their already dwindling net income that's already far and above what the wealth-class doesn't pay. Something's got to give!

    I've never advocated for the "Robin Hood approach" to solving our debt and deficit problem - take from the rich to give to the poor. What I have said was that the wealth-class can afford to pay alittle bit more in taxes to pay down the debt and reduce the deficit - a 3.5-5% marginal tax rate increase won't kill them. Corporations could also afford to pay higher wages so that the bedrock of our economy can get going - consumption! Unless you put more disposable income into the hands of employees, our economy which is based on consumption and debt can't thrive. It's stalled right now because we have too much debt and not enough full-time employees paying into the Treasury. So, to make up for the lose the Treasury is using the only stop-gap measure it has in its treasure chest - the sell of short-term Treasuries.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Moody's is correct. Refusing to raise the debt limit does not guarantee a default. They are not one and the same.

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