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Thread: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

  1. #11
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Moody's also believed that subprime mortgages would be unlikely to default. Color me not willing to bet the nations economy on their word, again.

  2. #12
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Here's another way to look at things -

    The majority of the public debt is held by the people of the USA. If the government fails to pay that debt then we get to foreclose.
    Exactly! We'd foreclose on ourselves. That means we still live in the same house, but it would be worth much less.

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Exactly! We'd foreclose on ourselves. That means we still live in the same house, but it would be worth much less.
    Not exactly.

    The interest on the domestically held portion of the public debt is roughly $200b (a little more than that actually). When we "foreclose" we do so by eliminating that amount from federal expenditures. For example:
    1. We make EITC and Additional Child Tax Credit non-refundable which will cover about $80B
    2. We chop federal education funding in half (a lot of this can be accomplished by simply eliminating desegregation payments) and make the states responsible for managing and funding their education systems. That would cut another $40B.
    3. We cut unemployment benefits in half because paying people not to work is simply subsidizing stupid. That will get us another $40B
    4. We can chop disaster relief funding in half (again, put this responsibility back on the states) which will save about $20B
    5. The other $20B or so can be cut out of the other thousands of programs we don't necessarily need to be involved in.

    We created this monstrosity that is the American political cesspool and it's our responsibility to fix it. If our elected officials either can't fix it or will not fix it then it's our responsibility to do it without them.

  4. #14
    Outer space potato man

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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Live updates: The shutdown



    Just like the empty threat to discontinue paying social security, it looks like Obama's default scare tactics are bogus, too.

    And this is the WaPo reporting this, of all sources, which is perhaps the real story here.
    You can't make the debt payments and social security payments and operate our military on existing revenue streams. Well, maybe you can squeeze in those three items but basically nothing else. Air traffic control? TSA? FBI? Highway funding? Which do you think we should just stop?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #15
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Numbers:

    2013 total revenue was 2700 billion

    Interest: 246
    Social Security: 882
    Medicare: 940
    DOD: 672

    Total: 2740B

    This means total elimination of the following:

    Department of Education
    Department of Veterans Affairs
    Department of Housing and Urban Development
    Department of State and Other International Programs
    Department of Homeland Security
    Department of Energy
    Department of Justice
    Department of Agriculture
    National Aeronautics and Space Administration
    National Intelligence Program
    Department of Transportation
    Department of the Treasury
    Department of the Interior
    Department of Labor
    Department of Commerce
    Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works
    Environmental Protection Agency
    National Science Foundation
    Small Business Administration
    Corporation for National and Community Service
    Disaster costs
    Other spending

    Tell me how this ****ing works, right-wingers.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  6. #16
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Numbers:

    2013 total revenue was 2700 billion

    Interest: 246
    Social Security: 882
    Medicare: 940
    DOD: 672

    Total: 2740B

    This means total elimination of the following:

    Department of Education
    Department of Veterans Affairs
    Department of Housing and Urban Development
    Department of State and Other International Programs
    Department of Homeland Security
    Department of Energy
    Department of Justice
    Department of Agriculture
    National Aeronautics and Space Administration
    National Intelligence Program
    Department of Transportation
    Department of the Treasury
    Department of the Interior
    Department of Labor
    Department of Commerce
    Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works
    Environmental Protection Agency
    National Science Foundation
    Small Business Administration
    Corporation for National and Community Service
    Disaster costs
    Other spending

    Tell me how this ****ing works, right-wingers.
    So borrowing even more and increasing the debt even more helps us how leftist? Try what the government does with your own credit card and see how long it takes you to go bust. And the only answer Obama can come up with is give him a blank check, he will take care of it and then we can talk about cuts? He's already managed to double the cost of Obamadon'tcare and it hasn't really taken effect yet. Nobody in their right mind would trust him alone with their personal check book and they shouldn't with taxpayer money either.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  7. #17
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Not exactly.

    The interest on the domestically held portion of the public debt is roughly $200b (a little more than that actually). When we "foreclose" we do so by eliminating that amount from federal expenditures. For example:
    1. We make EITC and Additional Child Tax Credit non-refundable which will cover about $80B
    2. We chop federal education funding in half (a lot of this can be accomplished by simply eliminating desegregation payments) and make the states responsible for managing and funding their education systems. That would cut another $40B.
    3. We cut unemployment benefits in half because paying people not to work is simply subsidizing stupid. That will get us another $40B
    4. We can chop disaster relief funding in half (again, put this responsibility back on the states) which will save about $20B
    5. The other $20B or so can be cut out of the other thousands of programs we don't necessarily need to be involved in.

    We created this monstrosity that is the American political cesspool and it's our responsibility to fix it. If our elected officials either can't fix it or will not fix it then it's our responsibility to do it without them.
    Lets back up.

    The US finances it's private debt through TNotes, TBonds, TBills etc... Some of those come due every month. That means that we need to sell some percentage of our old debt every month in addition to any new debt. Now, the Treasury paid off 7.5Trillion in maturing debt in 2013, and was forced to issue 8.3 trillion in new debt.

    Roll Over Plan: Treasury Needed to Pay Off Record $7.5T in Maturing Debt in FY 2013, Issued $8.3T New Debt; Increased Net Debt $777B | CNS News
    (from a right wing news source even)

    And here's the interest
    Government - Interest Expense on the Debt Outstanding

    We're in a situation now, where half of the debt is being serviced every year. This currently costs us 400 Billion per year or 7% of the US budget. Failing to raise the debt limit will increase the price of TNotes, TBills, and TBonds. This will immediately increase the cost to finance about half of the debt. Thus instead of 400 Billion per year, we're looking at 600-800 Billion per year to finance our debt. This is money effectively taken out of the US economy which would take an additional 2% or so out of the GDP.

    So now it's 2014. We have a bunch of problems. The US economy is now in a steep recession meaning revenues are say 400Billion lower than 2013. Furthermore, the debt costs another 300Billion more to finance. That's like taking 700 Billion out of our current budget. At this point, the drag of government debt will make it impossible to ever grow or cut our way to a balanced budget.

    At this point we'll have to inflate our way out of our debt, basically giving all of us a huge haircut. We will have effectively foreclosed on ourselves.

  8. #18
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Here's another way to look at things -

    The majority of the public debt is held by the people of the USA. If the government fails to pay that debt then we get to foreclose.
    I want the reflecting pool. Think I'll raise fish.

  9. #19
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    So borrowing even more and increasing the debt even more helps us how leftist? Try what the government does with your own credit card and see how long it takes you to go bust. And the only answer Obama can come up with is give him a blank check, he will take care of it and then we can talk about cuts? He's already managed to double the cost of Obamadon'tcare and it hasn't really taken effect yet. Nobody in their right mind would trust him alone with their personal check book and they shouldn't with taxpayer money either.
    US Federal debt and my credit card are comparable in which ways, exactly?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #20
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    Re: Moody's offers different view on debt limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    US Federal debt and my credit card are comparable in which ways, exactly?
    They both have limits. One is set by law the other is set by a private entity...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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