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Republicans Lose Ground vs. Obama in the Shutdown Blame Game

And how quickly some forget what Republicans said at the time.

Why is what a Republican said so important to you when this Senator is now President? It is quite telling that every time this President does something that is disastrous the liberals and Obamabots always try to point to a Republican doing the same thing. Why would anyone who supports Obama try to justify his actions because of what you perceive a Republican did?
 
Why is what a Republican said so important to you when this Senator is now President? It is quite telling that every time this President does something that is disastrous the liberals and Obamabots always try to point to a Republican doing the same thing. Why would anyone who supports Obama try to justify his actions because of what you perceive a Republican did?

The minority party always says raising the debt ceiling is bad. The majority party always says its necessary.

I wasn't defending Obama's previous statements. I was pointing out that what Obama is saying now, various Republicans were saying then. It's the same ****, it just flops parties periodically.

Who was justifying anything? Not me, certainly. You, on the other hand, don't seem to care what Republicans did in the past.
 
The minority party always says raising the debt ceiling is bad. The majority party always says its necessary.

I wasn't defending Obama's previous statements. I was pointing out that what Obama is saying now, various Republicans were saying then. It's the same ****, it just flops parties periodically.

Who was justifying anything? Not me, certainly. You, on the other hand, don't seem to care what Republicans did in the past.

There is quite a difference between raising the debt ceiling when the current debt is over 100% of our yearly GDP than it was when it was 60%. In addition the results generated from the debt the past four years has been terrible. If you get a good return on debt then debt is more understandable. Liberals don't seem to understand that. Example, Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt and what did we get for it, 17 million jobs, doubling of GDP, 60% growth in Income tax revenue, and a peace dividend and the debt was still a very small percentage of GDP. I don't know about you but I would take those results any day.
 
There is quite a difference between raising the debt ceiling when the current debt is over 100% of our yearly GDP than it was when it was 60%. In addition the results generated from the debt the past four years has been terrible. If you get a good return on debt then debt is more understandable. Liberals don't seem to understand that. Example, Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt and what did we get for it, 17 million jobs, doubling of GDP, 60% growth in Income tax revenue, and a peace dividend and the debt was still a very small percentage of GDP. I don't know about you but I would take those results any day.

Reagan started the problems that lead to the current mess. You're trying to compartmentalize different presidencies as if they don't have an effect on the future. It's absurd.
 
Reagan started the problems that lead to the current mess. You're trying to compartmentalize different presidencies as if they don't have an effect on the future. It's absurd.

Your opinion noted but not one thing you posted refuted the results generated and those who attack Reagan and conservative results really are jealous of his performance and leadership skills. Talking about Reagan to a liberal is like putting a red cape in front of a bull. It really is a shame that people call Obama a leader because those of us who understand leadership skills know he has none
 
The House GOP's Little Rule Change That Guaranteed A Shutdown

the House Rules Committee voted the night of Sept. 30 to change that rule for this specific bill. They added language dictating that any motion "may be offered only by the majority Leader or his designee."

The GOP's little rule change they hoped you wouldn't notice - YouTube

The night before they shutdown the government, the Republicans changed the standing House rules to prevent anyone except Republican leadership to motion for a vote to open the government. Yet they're trying to blame the Democrats for shutting down the government.

You have to really, really want to believe the Republicans didn't do this.

It's going to bite them in the ass in upcoming elections, and they richly deserve any penalty they suffer at the polls for this despicable stunt.
 
And how quickly some forget what Republicans said at the time.

You mean VP Cheney's "Reagan proved deficits don't matter?" Yes it was a different world when they were doing the spending.
 
You mean VP Cheney's "Reagan proved deficits don't matter?" Yes it was a different world when they were doing the spending.

Out of context but that is what liberals do. Deficits created to generate positive economic results like 17 million jobs, doubling of GDP, a peace dividend obviously are something you are incapable of understanding
 
That so many people show their partisanship and simply MUST blame the 'other side', rather than looking at the bigger picture (that it is BOTH sides that have lead us to this point, for DECADES), is exactly why we keep getting horrible government, and keep re-electing idiots that should have been put out to pasture decades ago. We are broke, and until the partisans wake the f up, the system will never be fixed.
 
I honestly think republicans are hoping to get this shutdown mess out of the way now rather than waiting till closer to the elections. Democrats are probably content to riding this issue through the elections by way of short-term continuing resolutions.

Elephants want a deal which is somewhat kind to them, Donkeys aren't going to give them anything of the sort and would probably benefit by keeping this issue around for as long as it continues to hurt the elephants. Problem for the elephants is that if they just give in to get the issue off the table, their electorates will crucify them. As long as the Donkeys are smart about it, they can keep this going so long as it continues to help them. Soon as, if ever, public perception turns against them, they will just delay the individual mandate for everyone and call it an example of their awesome bipartisanship and willingness to "put the country first."
 
Here is the problem that the Obama supporters want to ignore. Negotiation to a Democrat these days is giving them exactly what they want. How can the Republican Plan be rejected without even seeing it?

White House, Dems preemptively blast House GOP budget plan before it's introduced | Fox News

There was nothing to negotiate here. Everyone knew that from the start, except for a handful of out of control teabaggers who were willing to take down the GOP in their fray....
 
There was nothing to negotiate here. Everyone knew that from the start, except for a handful of out of control teabaggers who were willing to take down the GOP in their fray....

That is your opinion, guess you have no problem with the exemptions given to Congress and Union employees? Those weren't negotiated either so when the Republicans want to negotiate for the American people and remove those exemptions you claim there is nothing to negotiate? How partisan of you. You apparently have no problem with the exemptions Obama is giving Congress and his supporters?
 
Right-wing talking points....that's all you spout.

The Obamacare exemptions that aren't - latimes.com

The reality is, the ACA was never meant to cover large employers like the GOVERNMENT until 2017.

You really should turn off your right-wing propoganda and read a few things for yourself. You might actually learn something.
 
There was nothing to negotiate here. Everyone knew that from the start, except for a handful of out of control teabaggers who were willing to take down the GOP in their fray....

LOL. With the ways are reported to be in the House tonight, there's still plenty to negotiate or the Dems can keep on with their shutdown.
 
Read the poll data, the blame is rising fairly evenly. GOP 7% rise, Democrats 5% rise. Well within the margin of error. Not surprising the President is remaining unscathed, the dude could sprout red horns and a spiked tail and 40% will still approve of him.

And Jesus could come anoint Obama as his representative on Earth and 30% will still disapprove.

There are people on both sides who refuse to have their opinions shaped by facts. Problem is, it is becoming a larger percentage of the populace. We can't have a functioning democracy if the majority of voters are ignorant and vote strictly along party lines.
 
And Jesus could come anoint Obama as his representative on Earth and 30% will still disapprove.

There are people on both sides who refuse to have their opinions shaped by facts. Problem is, it is becoming a larger percentage of the populace. We can't have a functioning democracy if the majority of voters are ignorant and vote strictly along party lines.

Only in politics and with liberals do results not matter. The Obama results didn't warrant another four years and his results now are every bit as bad. Until the American people and many here stop with the partisan crap and look at results nothing is going to change
 
Only in politics and with liberals do results not matter. The Obama results didn't warrant another four years and his results now are every bit as bad. Until the American people and many here stop with the partisan crap and look at results nothing is going to change

Any time a poster says "Only with liberals, XXX" or "Only with conservatives, XXX," they are wrong.

Your idea of "stop with the partisan crap" is "vote for the Republican."
 
That so many people show their partisanship and simply MUST blame the 'other side', rather than looking at the bigger picture (that it is BOTH sides that have lead us to this point, for DECADES), is exactly why we keep getting horrible government, and keep re-electing idiots that should have been put out to pasture decades ago. We are broke, and until the partisans wake the f up, the system will never be fixed.

Are you trying to say that "we have seen the enemy and it is us" (Pogo)? I've seen many postings to the effect that we need to throw all the current incumbents out of office. Shows that they don't understand the issue. The issue is that WE elected these idiots. If we throw all the current crop out, then WE will just replace them with people who are just as screwed up plus they will have no experience.

Honestly folks, we are the only solution. The first thing is not to elect people based on their party affiliation. Find out about the candidates and vote for the better one no matter what party they are in. This would prevent things like the TP disaster where TP activist are able to primary good people out of office and then get bad people elected because they have the right party affiliation. The same holds for radicals on either side. If someone is radical left or radical right DON'T VOTE FOR THEM no matter what party they are in. If you want a rational government, you must require that they behave rationally and not allow them to be irrational just because they are members of the 'correct' party.

To repeat, this is OUR fault.
 
Any time a poster says "Only with liberals, XXX" or "Only with conservatives, XXX," they are wrong.

Your idea of "stop with the partisan crap" is "vote for the Republican."

No, I wouldn't have voted for a Republican with this record if there was a better Democrat alternative. Those of us who paid any attention to the Obama resume understood that he was unqualified in 2008 and hasn't learned a thing on the job. His record is a disaster and doesn't deserve support.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/10/mr-obama-presidency-is-no-place-for-amateurs/
 
No, I wouldn't have voted for a Republican with this record if there was a better Democrat alternative. Those of us who paid any attention to the Obama resume understood that he was unqualified in 2008 and hasn't learned a thing on the job. His record is a disaster and doesn't deserve support.

And he would have lost if the GOP had run a decent candidate. They didn't. Either time.

EDIT: Or if the GOP's campaign apparatus wasn't total clown shoes.
 
And he would have lost if the GOP had run a decent candidate. They didn't. Either time.

EDIT: Or if the GOP's campaign apparatus wasn't total clown shoes.

What ya got against clown shoes!
 
Only in politics and with liberals do results not matter. The Obama results didn't warrant another four years and his results now are every bit as bad. Until the American people and many here stop with the partisan crap and look at results nothing is going to change

Well, we could look at the list of accomplishments of liberals and then look at the list of accomplishments of conservatives and see who has made the greater contribution to the body politic.

Lincoln was a 'liberal'; he ended slavery.

Conservatives got us prohibition.

Liberals got us laws that ban discrimination on the basis of sex, religion, race, or sexual preference

Conservatives got us the Great Depression

Liberals ended child exploitation

Conservatives got us a downgrade of our sovereign debt

I could go on...

I think that conservatives serve a useful moderating role so that we don't rush off and do things just for the sake of doing them. But conservatism hardly ever provides benefit to society. BTW, by current standards, Reagan was a flaming liberal. He, for example, tripled the national debt and we had to raise the debt ceiling 18 times during his administration.
 
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