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Republicans Lose Ground vs. Obama in the Shutdown Blame Game

Conservative said:
But the deficit wasn't 650 billion because policies changed, predictions are great but reality are the results. Using CBO numbers as reality doesn't create a lot of credibility.
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The point is that government spending doesn't change overnight. Decisions made now can affect spending levels for decades. 650 Billion dollars of today's deficit was baked in to the system in 2003. But that was in the dark time, when deficits didn't matter.

I left the GOP because I care about actual fiscal responsibility, not just lip service.
 
Conservative said:
Only a liberal who really are the most selfish people in this country complain about what others have or what others pay in taxes. Why is it that liberals like you never complain when those evil rich people give record amounts to charities?

You seem to be someone who wants to define fair share and that is the problem. You think it is fair for almost half the income earning families in this country to pay ZERO in net income taxes and then have politicians claiming that the half that do pay FIT aren't paying their fair share?

When backed into a corner it is always diversion, distortion, and claims of ME ME ME. What allows people to get where they are today is initiative, drive, hard work, and dedication, lost arts in today's liberal world.
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Not at all. Even the tone of your response is still ME ME ME. And I have to laugh at your assertion that "liberals are the most selfish people in this country".....too funny. Initiate, drive, hard work and dedication are all important, but don't kid yourself, opportunity and ability also play a huge part as does access. There are a lot of people in this country that have gotten where they are due to hard work. There are a lot of people who are where they are because it was handed to them....and there are a lot of people that despite initiative, drive, hard work and dedication struggle every day because the opportuinity and access are not there. Don't kid yourself.
 
vesper said:
It's one thing to want to FREELY choose and share ones wealth with others less fortunate. It is altogether something else when a government forcefully takes from another to give to who they see should be the beneficiaries. It's a blatant attack on liberties. In fact your entire ideology is based on trampling the rights of many to cater to a few.
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Its not an attack on "liberties"....its part of the cost of doing business in this country. Far too often we hear from the "Conservatives" of this world that they should be entitled to keep everything they have "earned"....as if they shouldn't have to pay anything back to the Country that allowed them the opportunity and resources to earn what they have. It is downright disgusting.
 
Mithros said:
The point is that government spending doesn't change overnight. Decisions made now can affect spending levels for decades. 650 Billion dollars of today's deficit was baked in to the system in 2003. But that was in the dark time, when deficits didn't matter.

I left the GOP because I care about actual fiscal responsibility, not just lip service.
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The point is deficits are created by both spending increases and revenue shortfalls. What happened is spending can be predicted but Congress is very poor at creating revenue projections. Congress gives the CBO assumptions and if those assumptions aren't right the projections are going to be wrong. What most liberals today are ignoring are the facts that approximately 22 million Americans are unemployed/under employed/discouraged and thus aren't paying much in Federal Income taxes thus with the spending increases there is going to be a huge deficit. My point remains, we had the debt ceiling debate in 2011 and commitments to cut spending were made. That didn't happen so we are having the same debate right now. What assurances do we have that an increase in the debt ceiling won't lead to greater debt?
 
disneydude said:
Not at all. Even the tone of your response is still ME ME ME. And I have to laugh at your assertion that "liberals are the most selfish people in this country".....too funny. Initiate, drive, hard work and dedication are all important, but don't kid yourself, opportunity and ability also play a huge part as does access. There are a lot of people in this country that have gotten where they are due to hard work. There are a lot of people who are where they are because it was handed to them....and there are a lot of people that despite initiative, drive, hard work and dedication struggle every day because the opportuinity and access are not there. Don't kid yourself.
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I stand by my statement as you don't seem to understand liberal "leadership" that has created long term power and jobs to administer those so called compassionate social programs. That is liberal greed. A 3.77 trillion dollar Federal Govt. is liberal greed.

I never kid myself, life isn't fair. this country was built on equal opportunity not equal outcome. Liberals creating dependence is the most selfish thing anyone can do and you seem to revel in it.
 
Conservative said:
That isn't what Romney meant and you know it but keep beating that dead horse. Doesn't really matter what Romney said today as none of what he has said is relevant to the Obama results
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Neither does "Only liberals whine about how much taxes someone pays."
 
Conservative said:
I stand by my statement as you don't seem to understand liberal "leadership" that has created long term power and jobs to administer those so called compassionate social programs. That is liberal greed. A 3.77 trillion dollar Federal Govt. is liberal greed.

I never kid myself, life isn't fair. this country was built on equal opportunity not equal outcome. Liberals creating dependence is the most selfish thing anyone can do and you seem to revel in it.
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Again....what makes you think that I would give any credibility to a statement of a man who believes that GWB was an economic genius?

Do you honestly believe that equal opportunity exists in this country? Seriously?
 
disneydude said:
Its not an attack on "liberties"....its part of the cost of doing business in this country. Far too often we hear from the "Conservatives" of this world that they should be entitled to keep everything they have "earned"....as if they shouldn't have to pay anything back to the Country that allowed them the opportunity and resources to earn what they have. It is downright disgusting.
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What you hear is what the left wants you to hear. You think a 3.77 trillion dollar Federal govt. is justified? you think that income earning families shouldn't be paying something to the govt. in the form of Income taxes? Do you believe that taxing the rich is ever going to fund the liberal spending appetite? It is downright disgusting what has happened to today's Democrat Party and the attempt to forcibly redistribute someone else's wealth all in the name of compassion. Not one conservative I know has ever had a problem helping people truly in need but the waste, fraud, and abuse in social spending is really disgusting and the fact that there is never any accountability for that spending.
 
disneydude said:
Its not an attack on "liberties"....its part of the cost of doing business in this country. Far too often we hear from the "Conservatives" of this world that they should be entitled to keep everything they have "earned"....as if they shouldn't have to pay anything back to the Country that allowed them the opportunity and resources to earn what they have. It is downright disgusting.
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That's a dang lie.

Conservatives believe people should be allowed to keep more of what they earn, and believe in limited fair tax policies. They believe in personal responsibility for ones choices in life. Funny you lefties always want to declare the right as greedy and fail to admit your collectivist policies have created this behemoth federal government that has become the most greedy of all.
 
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disneydude said:
Again....what makes you think that I would give any credibility to a statement of a man who believes that GWB was an economic genius?

Do you honestly believe that equal opportunity exists in this country? Seriously?
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I never give much credibility to anyone who makes statements like you and never backs them up. Just more hot air from someone living in La La land. Yes, equal opportunity exists in this country especially in TX
 
Conservative said:
What you hear is what the left wants you to hear. You think a 3.77 trillion dollar Federal govt. is justified? you think that income earning families shouldn't be paying something to the govt. in the form of Income taxes? Do you believe that taxing the rich is ever going to fund the liberal spending appetite? It is downright disgusting what has happened to today's Democrat Party and the attempt to forcibly redistribute someone else's wealth all in the name of compassion. Not one conservative I know has ever had a problem helping people truly in need but the waste, fraud, and abuse in social spending is really disgusting and the fact that there is never any accountability for that spending.
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I love how you guys always cry "income redistribution" when tax laws are changed that require the wealthy to pay their fair share....but when a Republican changes tax laws to give tax benefits to the wealthiest...you are perfectly fine with that. Let me give you a clue Conservative....any time you change the tax code it "redistributes income".
 
vesper said:
That's a dang lie.

Conservatives believe people should be allowed to keep more of what they earn, and believe in limited fair tax policies. Funny you lefties always want to declare the right as greedy and fail to admit your policies have created this behemoth federal government that has become the most greedy of all.
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Again....another ME ME ME Conservative. Let ME keep all of my earnings....why do people like ME have to pay back into this country....why can't people like ME be allowed to rape the resources of this country freely without payment? Its not fair that I have to pay anything back to this great country. I should be able to get it for free...isn't that what freedom is about?

You guys are seriously too much.
 
disneydude said:
I love how you guys always cry "income redistribution" when tax laws are changed that require the wealthy to pay their fair share....but when a Republican changes tax laws to give tax benefits to the wealthiest...you are perfectly fine with that. Let me give you a clue Conservative....any time you change the tax code it "redistributes income".
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I love it how you claim to be the one to define what fair share means. Don't worry, California is getting close to that liberal utopia you want where all the money goes to the state house and they distribute how they see fit. Works great doesn't it? Your state has massive debt, the largest number of employees making minimum wage, the entitlement class, and the home of fruits and nuts.
 
Conservative said:
I never give much credibility to anyone who makes statements like you and never backs them up. Just more hot air from someone living in La La land. Yes, equal opportunity exists in this country especially in TX
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LOL Texas? The land of the highest percentage of minimum wage workers in the country. The land of the highest percentage of people living in poverty? The land of the highest percentage of people living without healthcare?

Equal opportunity to that? No thanks.
 
disneydude said:
Its not an attack on "liberties"....its part of the cost of doing business in this country. Far too often we hear from the "Conservatives" of this world that they should be entitled to keep everything they have "earned"....as if they shouldn't have to pay anything back to the Country that allowed them the opportunity and resources to earn what they have. It is downright disgusting.
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What's disgusting is that only certain people pay to do what the People decide is government's job, and those are precisely the people vilified by you and the others who don't pay squat. It's not the folks who want to keep more of what they earn through their own works who owe anything to the country, they are already the only ones paying.

You say it's the cost of doing business in this country, then you argue out the other side of your mouth that those who don't pay should have access to those services too. Which is it?
 
Conservative said:
I love it how you claim to be the one to define what fair share means. Don't worry, California is getting close to that liberal utopia you want where all the money goes to the state house and they distribute how they see fit. Works great doesn't it? Your state has massive debt, the largest number of employees making minimum wage, the entitlement class, and the home of fruits and nuts.
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maybe it should be the States paying the 17 trillion dollar debt. after all the states owe the federal government for when it picked up the tab for the original states who were in debt because of the revolutionary war.
 
Conservative said:
I love it how you claim to be the one to define what fair share means. Don't worry, California is getting close to that liberal utopia you want where all the money goes to the state house and they distribute how they see fit. Works great doesn't it? Your state has massive debt, the largest number of employees making minimum wage, the entitlement class, and the home of fruits and nuts.
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Nope....you are wrong about just about everything in this post. But then again...you are from Texas...that shouldn't be a surprise
 
disneydude said:
Again....another ME ME ME Conservative. Let ME keep all of my earnings....why do people like ME have to pay back into this country....why can't people like ME be allowed to rape the resources of this country freely without payment? Its not fair that I have to pay anything back to this great country. I should be able to get it for free...isn't that what freedom is about?

You guys are seriously too much.
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And you keep repeating the same unfounded nonsense. Tell me...how many Progressives does it take to screw in a light bulb?
 
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clownboy said:
What's disgusting is that only certain people pay to do what the People decide is government's job, and those are precisely the people vilified by you and the others who don't pay squat. It's not the folks who want to keep more of what they earn through their own works who owe anything to the country, they are already the only ones paying.

You say it's the cost of doing business in this country, then you argue out the other side of your mouth that those who don't pay should have access to those services too. Which is it?
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Sorry...but you guys are always trying to play class warfare. Everyone pays back into this country.
 
disneydude said:
Sorry...but you guys are always trying to play class warfare. Everyone pays back into this country.
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Major lie, class warfare is the left's invention, the liberal baby. And no, everybody does not pay back into this country, that's just the point. The people that do are the ones you're constantly vilifying.
 
disneydude said:
LOL Texas? The land of the highest percentage of minimum wage workers in the country. The land of the highest percentage of people living in poverty? The land of the highest percentage of people living without healthcare?

Equal opportunity to that? No thanks.
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That would be a lie, California has 8% of the work force making minimum wage, TX has less than 5%. You really have been brainwashed. You do the math TX 500,000 minimum wage jobs with a employment number of 12 million, California with 1.6 million minimum wage jobs on a work force of 18 million
 
Conservative said:
That would be a lie, California has 8% of the work force making minimum wage, TX has less than 5%. You really have been brainwashed. You do the math TX 500,000 minimum wage jobs with a employment number of 12 million, California with 1.6 million minimum wage jobs on a labor force of 18 million
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Nope. Texas has the highest percentatge of people living on minimum wage. Check the demographics/statistics.

http://www.bls.gov/ro6/fax/minwage_tx.htm

Texas 4.7%, California 1.4%
 
vesper said:
And you keep repeating the same unfounded nonsense. Tell me...how many Progressives does it take to screw in a light bulb?
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What's a light bulb? thought liberals outlawed them
 
disneydude said:
Sorry...but you guys are always trying to play class warfare. Everyone pays back into this country.
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How so when only 50% are currently paying federal taxes? Yet the other 50% that drive on our roads everyday and they get the benefits of national security yet pay squat for it! And a good number of them receive federal assistance. What the hell is fair about that?
 
disneydude said:
Nope. Texas has the highest percentatge of people living on minimum wage. Check the demographics/statistics.
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So California doesn't have a minimum wage? How many people live on that minimum wage? Let me help you, the California minimum wage is $8 an hour, would have thought you would look at your paycheck. 1.6 million Californians make minimum wage according to the California labor dept and BLS says there are 18 million working Californians so what percentage is that?
 
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