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Thread: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

  1. #71
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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Would you be so kind to post the surrender document?
    i sponsored vietnamese refugees who left their native land to live in the USA upon the loss of the war
    had we won, that would not have been necessary
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i sponsored vietnamese refugees who left their native land to live in the USA upon the loss of the war
    had we won, that would not have been necessary
    That's your evidence?...lmao!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #73
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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    If you say so. I look at history in terms of broad patterns and logistical realities, and broad patterns and logistical realities say they would have had to.
    You've only referenced one piece of documentation. That's not very broad. It takes an appearance of repeating the same lies that have been told for the past 3 decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Where do you get the idea that wars arent won on the battlefield? Did the allies lose WW1?
    Fact is most wars are won in the minds of the people.. not on the actual battlefield, especially these days. Vietnam is such a war. Another is WW1. You should have chosen WW2,.. since there battles had more to do with winning than anything else, but even here the moral of populations and their willingness to go on despite the hardships were key to victory.

    When the Americans entered WW1 both sides were on the brink of collapse. Especially the Allies were very bad off (historical documents clearly show this), with food shortages and resource shortages. The last ditch German offensive almost broke the back of the Allies and had the troops and population not known that many more US troops were on the way, then that back would have been broken. The populations in France and UK were very tired of war and the shortages were massive. The political elite had for a while fought against defeatist attitudes among the population but also among the military. There was several mass revolts in the Allied armies.

    As it turned out the effect of the German offensive in 1918 was the following. It was the last ditch attempt to break the allies, it failed, and combined with the knowledge of hundreds of thousands of fresh troops and new resources coming to their enemy while they and their families were starving finally drove the German army to basically revolt and that ultimately ended the war... not a massive battle. The allies never really entered Germany proper, and only occupied bits of Germany. They never took Berlin, but the Germans almost took Paris..

    Basically the moral of the armies and populations had far more to do with who won and lost in WW1 than any actual battle or battles. The only thing the battles did was contribute.

    The Vietnam war was no different. The US won all battles basically, but lost the war because the willingness of the population to continue the war was gone and that happened after the Tet offensive that showed on national TV that the US was not invincible and even US soil could be occupied by the North Vietnamese (yes the Embassy).
    PeteEU

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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Incorrect as always. Used by US Soldiers in Korea after they didn't understand a word the Koreans used for American- they thought the Koreans were saying 'me-gook'. Hangook is the term for the Korean country in their language as well.

    Used in the Philippines as well. Always stood as a racial term for Asians, not Berbers... The Marines stationed at manila used the word to refer to prostitutes. As far as i can tell it never was a 'neutral' word. Not used outside of the Pacific region.

    If you ever set foot in SE Asia with US personnel you should know the term, 'Luke the Gook' when referring to the VC. 'Gook' was not a complement- Sir Charles was.

    You are good at revisionist history.
    As Dean Vernon Wormer would say, "Being fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

    The word was in use by U.S. Marines by the 1820's.

    America's first Korean War didn't happen until 1871. -> http://www.debatepolitics.com/histor...ar-1871-a.html

    The use of the word being used by U.S. Marines during the Mexican American War can be found in naval documents at the Washington Navy Yard and the California State Military Museum and also if you read either Joseph Walker's personal journals or by reading this book. -> Westering Man: The Life of Joseph Walker: Bil Gilbert: 9780806119342: Amazon.com: Books

    The U.S. Army didn't pick up on the term until soldiers were fighting alongside of U.S. Marines during the Philippine Insurrection.

    U.S. soldiers used the term in southern Europe during WW ll and they weren't referring to Asians.

    The term was used in the Southwest Pacific to describe the Solomon Islands not people. The term fell out of use by 1943 until the Vietnam War.

    Knew a Marine Sergeant who spotted NGF for the Australians in Vietnam and he referred to the Aussies using the same word.

    The term is a frickin U.S. Marine slang word, a frickin noun, a person, place or thing. It wasn't until the 1970's when the PC left started to change the definition of words to further their political agenda did the loony left decide it was a derogatory term. It's called liberal revisionism.


    BTW: Just a couple of years ago the liberal revisionist changed the names of one of America's wars. That's right, the Philippine Insurrection is no more. In the name of political correctness, it's now the Philippine-American War. I #### you not. Go to the liberal Wikipedia and type in Philippine Insurrection.

    I wonder what the next word that is on the PC hit list ? "Hold Down the Fort" ? That's right the Obama administration already has that one taken care of, it's now a derogatory term.

  6. #76
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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    That's the question I'm asking, how do liberals feel about the death of Gen. Giap ?

    John Kerry is a liberal, can you deny that John Kerry was a patriotic hero of Communist Vietnam ?

    Today Vietnam looks at Kerry as being a traitor to his own country even though Kerry was an ally of North Vietnam during the 70's.
    Wow. You have a very warped sense of history.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Fact is most wars are won in the minds of the people.. not on the actual battlefield, especially these days. Vietnam is such a war. Another is WW1. You should have chosen WW2,.. since there battles had more to do with winning than anything else, but even here the moral of populations and their willingness to go on despite the hardships were key to victory.

    When the Americans entered WW1 both sides were on the brink of collapse. Especially the Allies were very bad off (historical documents clearly show this), with food shortages and resource shortages. The last ditch German offensive almost broke the back of the Allies and had the troops and population not known that many more US troops were on the way, then that back would have been broken. The populations in France and UK were very tired of war and the shortages were massive. The political elite had for a while fought against defeatist attitudes among the population but also among the military. There was several mass revolts in the Allied armies.

    As it turned out the effect of the German offensive in 1918 was the following. It was the last ditch attempt to break the allies, it failed, and combined with the knowledge of hundreds of thousands of fresh troops and new resources coming to their enemy while they and their families were starving finally drove the German army to basically revolt and that ultimately ended the war... not a massive battle. The allies never really entered Germany proper, and only occupied bits of Germany. They never took Berlin, but the Germans almost took Paris..

    Basically the moral of the armies and populations had far more to do with who won and lost in WW1 than any actual battle or battles. The only thing the battles did was contribute.

    The Vietnam war was no different. The US won all battles basically, but lost the war because the willingness of the population to continue the war was gone and that happened after the Tet offensive that showed on national TV that the US was not invincible and even US soil could be occupied by the North Vietnamese (yes the Embassy).
    You don't get to cherry pick your interpretation of history. The facts are what they are and aren't imagined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I don't know about "entire" hamlets.

    It says 10,000 or so civilians got caught in American crossfire of large scale operations "intentionally or accidentally." Third-parties put the number higher, in the tens of thousands. For even the smaller estimation to work out, farms and villages would have to be targets.

    The essential point is that we didn't play nice in our Asian theaters of war. "Nicer" than our enemies by a wide margin, but nothing like in France.
    Unless a target was in a "free fire zone" and no hamlets, villages or cities ever were except during Tet of 68, all fire support missions had to go through MACV and approved by the RVN government.

    That infamous photo of the naked Vietnamese girl running down the road with her village burning from napalm. No Americans were even in the area. The vill was napalmed by the RVN Air Force. But the liberals back home wanted everyone to think it's was the Americans who napalmed the vill. Liberal revisionism at work and looking at some of the post, it worked.

    I'll enlighten you. Look real close to the soldiers in the photo. They aren't American but ARVAN soldiers. It was RVN Air Force planes that bombed the vill, not Americans.

    napalm_20girl.jpg

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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Wow. You have a very warped sense of history.
    Kerry was honored in Communist Vietnam after the war with a photograph hanging in the Vietnamese Communist War Remnants Museum (formerly known as the "War Crimes Museum") in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon). The photograph, displayed in a room dedicated to foreign activists who contributed to the Communist victory over America in the Vietnam War, shows Senator John Kerry being greeted by Comrade Do Muoi, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam.


    B01.jpg

    Photograph of John Kerry meeting with Comrade Do Muoi, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, in Vietnam. Photo displayed in the War Remnants Museum (formerly the "War Crimes Museum") in Saigon. The June 2, 2004, edition of "Viet Nam News" is held beside the Kerry photograph to confirm the date the photo was taken. English-language placard below photograph reads: Mr. Do Muoi, Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party met with Congressmen and Veterans Delegation in Vietnam in 1993.

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    Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    As Dean Vernon Wormer would say, "Being fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."The word was in use by U.S. Marines by the 1820's. America's first Korean War didn't happen until 1871. -> http://www.debatepolitics.com/histor...ar-1871-a.html The use of the word being used by U.S. Marines during the Mexican American War can be found in naval documents at the Washington Navy Yard and the California State Military Museum and also if you read either Joseph Walker's personal journals or by reading this book. -> Westering Man: The Life of Joseph Walker: Bil Gilbert: 9780806119342: Amazon.com: Books The U.S. Army didn't pick up on the term until soldiers were fighting alongside of U.S. Marines during the Philippine Insurrection. U.S. soldiers used the term in southern Europe during WW ll and they weren't referring to Asians. The term was used in the Southwest Pacific to describe the Solomon Islands not people. The term fell out of use by 1943 until the Vietnam War. Knew a Marine Sergeant who spotted NGF for the Australians in Vietnam and he referred to the Aussies using the same word. The term is a frickin U.S. Marine slang word, a frickin noun, a person, place or thing. It wasn't until the 1970's when the PC left started to change the definition of words to further their political agenda did the loony left decide it was a derogatory term. It's called liberal revisionism. BTW: Just a couple of years ago the liberal revisionist changed the names of one of America's wars. That's right, the Philippine Insurrection is no more. In the name of political correctness, it's now the Philippine-American War. I #### you not. Go to the liberal Wikipedia and type in Philippine Insurrection. I wonder what the next word that is on the PC hit list ? "Hold Down the Fort" ? That's right the Obama administration already has that one taken care of, it's now a derogatory term.
    You are just leaving a trail of rat droppings. You cite NOTHING to prove your point. NOTHING at all! The links are to amazon books but not what the quote.

    You can make stuff up and claim it is the truth but you give no facts, like the word for country in Korean is gook. Migook for America and Hangook for Korea.

    Cite ANY source for your claims...ANY.

    The left didn't establish the word as a racial slur for asians. Unless you consider those who serve in uniform are lefties.

    Wiki uses both terms for the Philippine war... I never knew it was only ever called insurrection, you seem intent on making everything a vast leftie smear campaign...

    As far as your supposed Marine who called Aussies gooks, I know a guy who used the 'N' word for every race and creed he met if he didn't like them... your 'story' proves nothing.

    You just wanted to sound salty and instead you just reminded us how out of touch you are in your own little world. I worked with several Marines, 2 Vietnam vets and one Gulf War... they NEVER used gook for a generic- 'different' term. It was ALWAYS about asians and not in a nice way.

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