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Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

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davidtaylorjr said:
One cut at early stage in life can negate the need for further medical care, why would you not want to do that?
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Because it's barbaric. And I would agree to barbarism if it served any purpose... however that purpose is no longer served since it's replaced by new, better methods.
 
Rainman05 said:
Because it's barbaric. And I would agree to barbarism if it served any purpose... however that purpose is no longer served since it's replaced by new, better methods.
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Doctors disagree as I have already shown. And how is it barbaric? It doesn't hurt the child (when done properly in a medical facility, not at home with a Rabbi), it only helps the child.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Doctors disagree as I have already shown. And how is it barbaric? It doesn't hurt the child (when done properly in a medical facility, not at home with a Rabbi), it only helps the child.
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some doctors do plenty of others don't
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Doctors disagree as I have already shown. And how is it barbaric? It doesn't hurt the child (when done properly in a medical facility, not at home with a Rabbi), it only helps the child.
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Tell me, do you support peoples' right to self-determination when it comes to their own life?
 
Seems to me that more of you people should be disturbed by the fact that somebody else made a decision to slice off a part of your penis.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Depends what you mean by that.
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Well, it's very simple.

Do you think people have the right to choose the way they want to live their lives?
Do you think people have the right to choose their own religion?
If so, they how can you expect to enforce a religious doctrine that permanently alters you on a baby who can't even speak, let alone pick his own religion. Maybe he no longer wants to be a jew later in life and what u know... he's already been subjected to a barbaric treatment when he was a pup.

Do you think people have the right to their own medical treatment?
If so, then how can enforce an medical practice on someone who doesn't consent and which is irreversible. And it's not like this medical operation is important. It's not like a child HAS to get it. It's unnecessary surgery basically.

Do you think people have the right to their own lifestyle choice?
If so, then how can you think it's ok to have children circumcised which will reduce the sensitivity of the penis.

It's barbaric and useless. time to put this out of mainstream like we did all the other non-sense as we civilized and grew as a society.
 
Rainman05 said:
Well, it's very simple.

Do you think people have the right to choose the way they want to live their lives?
Do you think people have the right to choose their own religion?
If so, they how can you expect to enforce a religious doctrine that permanently alters you on a baby who can't even speak, let alone pick his own religion. Maybe he no longer wants to be a jew later in life and what u know... he's already been subjected to a barbaric treatment when he was a pup.

Do you think people have the right to their own medical treatment?
If so, then how can enforce an medical practice on someone who doesn't consent and which is irreversible. And it's not like this medical operation is important. It's not like a child HAS to get it. It's unnecessary surgery basically.

Do you think people have the right to their own lifestyle choice?
If so, then how can you think it's ok to have children circumcised which will reduce the sensitivity of the penis.

It's barbaric and useless. time to put this out of mainstream like we did all the other non-sense as we civilized and grew as a society.
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I believe in those things to an extent, let me break it down for you.

1. People can choose how to live there lives to an extent, babies obviously can't make those choices.
2. People have the right to choose their religion.
3. Circumcision is not strictly a religious practice.
4. Yes people should be able to choose their own medical treatment, however, if a baby is sick should we not treat them? They can't make that decision so should we let them just stay sick? To a point it is the parent's responsibility to give their child medical treatment until they are older.
5. People can choose their lifestyle to an extent.

It's not barbaric as there is no pain to the child. It's not useless as I have already shown.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
I believe in those things to an extent, let me break it down for you.

1. People can choose how to live there lives to an extent, babies obviously can't make those choices.
2. People have the right to choose their religion.
3. Circumcision is not strictly a religious practice.
4. Yes people should be able to choose their own medical treatment, however, if a baby is sick should we not treat them? They can't make that decision so should we let them just stay sick? To a point it is the parent's responsibility to give their child medical treatment until they are older.
5. People can choose their lifestyle to an extent.

It's not barbaric as there is no pain to the child. It's not useless as I have already shown.
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1+4. yes, they can't make choices. And I agree, medical care is the duty of the parents until the child is older. But circumcision is not a requirement. It's not like a baby NEEDS it. A baby doesn't need circumcision to LIVE or to be healthy. it's unecessary surgery.

2. and how do you comply this with the fact that you perform a religious ritual which one may regret later in life because he switches or abandons judaism?

3. True... it goes to 1+4. same reply really...

5. ofc to some extent, but having men have less sensitivity in their penis goes pretty much against this.
 
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davidtaylorjr said:
It's not barbaric as there is no pain to the child.
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bush-duh.jpg
 
Rainman05 said:
1+4. yes, they can't make choices. And I agree, medical care is the duty of the parents until the child is older. But circumcision is not a requirement. It's not like a baby NEEDS it. A baby doesn't need circumcision to LIVE or to be healthy. it's unecessary surgery.

2. and how do you comply this with the fact that you perform a religious ritual which one may regret later in life because he switches or abandons judaism?

3. True... it goes to 1+4. same reply really...

5. ofc to some extent, but having men have less sensitivity in their penis goes pretty much against this.
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1. Shots are unnecessary in many cases, yet we give those as well. :shrug:
2. Once again, it's not a strictly religious ritual. Many get circumcised and it has nothing to do with religion.
3. Glad we agree.
5. Not sure how one would know if there is less sensitivity, how do you even gauge that? lol
 
davidtaylorjr said:
1. Shots are unnecessary in many cases, yet we give those as well. :shrug:
2. Once again, it's not a strictly religious ritual. Many get circumcised and it has nothing to do with religion.
3. Glad we agree.
5. Not sure how one would know if there is less sensitivity, how do you even gauge that? lol
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1. vaccines are actually quite a preventive medicine method.
2. true, but if u were jewish and then stopped, you got burned. well, cut.
3. we agree that they are a barbaric ritual?
5. science.
 
Rainman05 said:
1. vaccines are actually quite a preventive medicine method.
2. true, but if u were jewish and then stopped, you got burned. well, cut.
3. we agree that they are a barbaric ritual?
5. science.
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1. So is circumcision.
2. If?
3. No I think I misread your statement.
5. Got documentation on that? How would they even know?
 
I am glad I am circumcised and I am glad I didn't have to decide to have it done when I was 18, and instead do not remember it being done at all. Now, that would have really sucked at 18. I am glad my parents took it upon themselves to decide what was best for me, since I was too young at the time to decide for myself.

Any surgical procedure could be characterized as barbaric.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
1. So is circumcision.
2. If?
3. No I think I misread your statement.
5. Got documentation on that? How would they even know?
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1. It's not preventive medicine. It's unecessary surgery and it's intrusive and invasive.
2. if you were born jewish and then decided not follow judaism anymore... you still got cut due to religious motives too.
5. Idk... science man.
 
Rainman05 said:
Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision | Reuters





Well first off, the council of Europe doesn't make laws. this is just a resolution. It's a recommendation basically.
I personally agree, I think the whole male circumcision thing is barbaric at best. A savage practice that we can dispense from now, in this day and age.

I'm not against having men circumcised if they want to when they're past 18 years old and legally adults but not before they can speak and understand what is happening to them.

The funny thing is israels' reaction the suggestion. I mean talk about overreaction. This law won't affect israel. And I know what you're thinking, it will affect jews in Europe. But jews in europe that are not israelis are not Israels' duty to represent. They have their own representatives.
And the religious argument doesn't matter here. It doesn't matter if your religion says this is important or not, religion does not play a hand in matters of governance. You obey the laws of the land first and you observe your religious practices in religious locations.
If you make a religion that demands that you kill someone every solstice, you will go to prison for murder. Now I'm not comparing circumcision with murder, I'm just pointing out that the law of the land is what counts and religious rituals that are against the law are religious rituals that must be abandoned. But this isn't the case yet with circumcision, as I said, this is just a resolution, not a law. The council can't make laws.
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I think that if you ban it without anesthetic then neither side has just cause to complain, i fail to see why this is such a priority though.
 
Red_Dave said:
I think that if you ban it without anesthetic then neither side has just cause to complain, i fail to see why this is such a priority though.
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Religious hatred and bitterness. It's very common in Europe, that's why administrators want to stick their nose in a family's business; to undermine religion.
 
The so called advantages of circumcision are very exaggerated, all to satiate the religious right and their covenant with god. It's called soap and water, and using a condom.

Europe is not a very pro-circ zone so Israel just has to get over it. And don't expect many Americans to be sympathetic to Europe. Their warped cultural fetish for cut cocks and shaming of male sexuality runs so deep that they think a natural penis looks disgusting.
 
Medusa said:
so sorry

but the possibility of him dying from another more serious disease may be much higher in the future if he isnt circumcised

l am neither defending it nor opposing but just trying to be objective
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There's practically no chance of someone dying from an uncut penis if they have running water.
 
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