Page 11 of 24 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 240

Thread: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

  1. #101
    Guru
    Juanita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    now? COLORADO
    Last Seen
    04-27-16 @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    3,981

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by shanners View Post
    Many men who became circumcised as adults report that sex is less pleasurable than before.

    Another good reason to have it done when he is a baby, if that is even true...

  2. #102
    The Light of Truth
    Northern Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,968

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    Another good reason to have it done when he is a baby, if that is even true...
    So that they are ignorant that something has been lost, even though it has? Sounds real ethical.

  3. #103
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I believe it was "restricted", not "outlawed".



    I have a better question. Why is the brit milah okay just because it's an "ancient religious tradition"? Imagine a world where circumcision was rarely performed, and only when medically necessary. Now imagine, in the year 2014, a religious group comes along and with the advent of the brit milah, rabbi sucking blood from the genitals and the whole shabang, claiming it was part of their covenant with God. Do you really think most countries would say, "Yep, that makes sense!", and allow it?

    How much do we allow in the name of religion? I realize that the U.S. has a fetish for cut cocks which prevents most of its people from seeing this issue clearly, but if you can, try to put it aside. Why does this religious practice get the ok, but if a non-Jew did something like this to a baby they would probably end up in jail for sex crimes and assault?

    Why is it ok for one group to do this to a baby's genitals, but not another? Why, in general, do parents get to opt for this elective, unnecessary procedure when the child is at an age where they can't vocalize dissent?
    Look, dude, you can equate it to all sorts of crazy crap and say "what if" but details matter to me and they always have. It's a minor thing, like having a baby's ears pierced (which is quite common and cultural where I live). All this, it's the same as having all your teeth and toes pulled out is getting ridiculous. I get that you cannot fathom why anyone has any religious beliefs and that it offends you that people have them. That does not make you right. Your religion may be more about appearances because you're fine with children suffering in the name of something as shallow as "looking better". Your issue here is not concern for the kids, but for sticking it to religion.

  4. #104
    Guru
    Juanita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    now? COLORADO
    Last Seen
    04-27-16 @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    3,981

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    A washed penis is a clean penis and less likely to give an infection.

    What does this have to do with Israel?

    I'm not a statist. This is about medical ethics.

    I took it as being against Jewish tradition, but look at it as a medical procedure that most Americans, Jewish or not, have done on their male children...

  5. #105
    The Light of Truth
    Northern Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,968

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Look, dude, you can equate it to all sorts of crazy crap and say "what if" but details matter to me and they always have. It's a minor thing, like having a baby's ears pierced (which is quite common and cultural where I live). All this, it's the same as having all your teeth and toes pulled out is getting ridiculous. I get that you cannot fathom why anyone has any religious beliefs and that it offends you that people have them. That does not make you right. Your religion may be more about appearances because you're fine with children suffering in the name of something as shallow as "looking better". Your issue here is not concern for the kids, but for sticking it to religion.
    You are so obtuse it's impossible to really have this debate with you. First of all, children have a right to refuse dental procedures. Second, if they consent, they can have their mouth numbed or be put under, unlike newborn babies. Third, what business does Israel have telling Europe what to do when its laws have zero bearing on Israel's laws? Fourth, Council of Europe is a toothless organization, an as the article said, they encourage public debate - kind of like the one we're having right now. And lastly, if you are against female circumcision it's a worth cause but apparently if you're against male circumcision you're either an anti-semite, a statist, or just value the unclean.

    The UN does not support universal circumcision. More than a majority of the world's men are uncircumcised and live just fine. Let's face the facts, that aside from religious koolaid and certain countries like America where cut cocks are fetishized as "normal", this practice is considered deviant.

    I would question ANY religious belief that involves forcing an unnecessary medical procedure on an infant. Sorry that critical thinking skills offend you! (No wait, I'm not.)

  6. #106
    The Light of Truth
    Northern Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,968

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    I took it as being against Jewish tradition, but look at it as a medical procedure that most Americans, Jewish or not, have done on their male children...
    I happen to be against the brit milah by proxy of being against elective circumcision in general. We would not do this to girls so we should not be doing it to boys either. Bodily sovereignty reigns supreme. I'm only in favor of parents being able to override that if there's a genuine medical need.

  7. #107
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    You are so obtuse it's impossible to really have this debate with you. First of all, children have a right to refuse dental procedures. Second, if they consent, they can have their mouth numbed or be put under, unlike newborn babies. Third, what business does Israel have telling Europe what to do when its laws have zero bearing on Israel's laws? Fourth, Council of Europe is a toothless organization, an as the article said, they encourage public debate - kind of like the one we're having right now. And lastly, if you are against female circumcision it's a worth cause but apparently if you're against male circumcision you're either an anti-semite, a statist, or just value the unclean.

    The UN does not support universal circumcision. More than a majority of the world's men are uncircumcised and live just fine. Let's face the facts, that aside from religious koolaid and certain countries like America where cut cocks are fetishized as "normal", this practice is considered deviant.

    I would question ANY religious belief that involves forcing an unnecessary medical procedure on an infant. Sorry that critical thinking skills offend you! (No wait, I'm not.)
    You're too emotionally invested in your contempt for religion you cannot look at yourself, and your own hypocrisies objectively. To compare male circumcision to female is just sad. Female genital mutilation is done so that women are less likely to feel anything sexual (hence cutting away the clitorus). To compare the two cheapens what FGM really is about. Children cannot give consent or withhold it. A child may not want his cavities drilled but we don't leave things like that up to children. In the US, parents still get to make decisions regarding their children's upbringing. Finally, where do you get the idea that newborns cannot be numbed? I know for a fact they can and are.

  8. #108
    Guru
    Juanita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    now? COLORADO
    Last Seen
    04-27-16 @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    3,981

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I happen to be against the brit milah by proxy of being against elective circumcision in general. We would not do this to girls so we should not be doing it to boys either. Bodily sovereignty reigns supreme. I'm only in favor of parents being able to override that if there's a genuine medical need.


    Fine, but it really isn't any of your business what other people do, and I don't think that circumcision can be equated with female genital mutilation..

  9. #109
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I happen to be against the brit milah by proxy of being against elective circumcision in general. We would not do this to girls so we should not be doing it to boys either. Bodily sovereignty reigns supreme. I'm only in favor of parents being able to override that if there's a genuine medical need.
    So, what state centers do you think children should be taken to to be raised correctly and without the influences of their stupid parents? Surely circumcision can't be the only thing that offends you. Some parent's may (are you sitting down for this?) take their children to church.

  10. #110
    The Light of Truth
    Northern Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,968

    Re: Israel attacks Council of Europe move to restrict male circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You're too emotionally invested in your contempt for religion you cannot look at yourself, and your own hypocrisies objectively. To compare male circumcision to female is just sad. Female genital mutilation is done so that women are less likely to feel anything sexual (hence cutting away the clitorus). To compare the two cheapens what FGM really is about. Children cannot give consent or withhold it. A child may not want his cavities drilled but we don't leave things like that up to children. In the US, parents still get to make decisions regarding their children's upbringing. Finally, where do you get the idea that newborns cannot be numbed? I know for a fact they can and are.
    Let me break this down for you. I'm not against religion, and pitching that useless argument is just an attempt to obfuscate. I spent the better part of my life as a member of a Church. We have many laws against bodily harm, from minor to the worst possible, and those laws don't have exceptions no matter what a person's faith is. We should evaluate circumcision based on its merits using secular data, and then form policy based on that. If it's determined that it's unnecessary, then it's universally unnecessary. That is my argument.

    We live in the information age, the age of truth. Whatever is truth is truth. We don't make exceptions because of some person's holy book. There are plenty of things from leviticus that are scientifically unsubstantiated, and aren't allowed anymore. Circumcision is just one more of those old world leftovers that people don't want to part with, no matter how much data proves its insignificant effectiveness.

    I'm against elective circumcision, not religion. The benefits of circumcision as touted by its supporters are vastly overstated and typically only used to cover up an aesthetic appeal. So let's be honest, because that's what this is about. In the case of Americans, uncut cocks are ugly. They believe their baby boys were born imperfect, so they have the most sensitive flesh on their body sliced into. If it weren't for years upon years of tradition, we would all look at this for the simple unnecessary barbarity that it is..

    I'm not the one with an emotional investment here. I've consulted the science, and the medical literature. In the past 50 years we've gone from it being routine, to it being elective, to it being not recommended unless medically necessary. The next step is to simply disallow it.

    The comparison to FGM is obvious. You're just biased. Removal of the clitorial hood is anatomically analagous to male circumcision, but it's considered FGM and outlawed. So don't call me a hypocrite. Get your facts straight first.

    What do you have against letting boys grow up and decide for themselves?

Page 11 of 24 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •