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Thread: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits'

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL....you can't address the point that YOUR tax dollars pay for the uninsured in other states....so instead you divert with the straw "utopias". We know that SP lowers costs and increases coverage with better outcomes.....so you face another dead-end in spite of your rhetoric.

    What will be the next diversion?
    You are capable of only seeing what you want to see and ignore the fact that a single payer system in this country will always cost more than intended, do less than intended, and never solve a problem. The answer is the free enterprise and true capitalistic economy that built this country, you know, the one that allows you to make a fool of yourself with every post?

    You have convinced me though, we need to dissolve the states, have all tax revenue and paychecks go to the Federal bureaucrats in D.C. and have them send back to the states and the individual what they deem necessary. The Federal bureaucrats obviously are more in tune with the state and local social problems than the people living there. The Federal Bureaucrats obviously know what is best for everyone else. And of course the Federal Bureaucrats care more than the state and local representatives who are closest to the people. Doctors would be absolutely foolish not to support a single payer system knowing that their pressure to keep up to date on the newest techniques and medicine would be a lot less and they wouldn't have to worry about how to spend their own money since that money isn't theirs any more.

    Yes, liberal utopias all over the world with single payers are booming successes. How could I have been so blind.

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    What if we're right?
    What if the greatest country in the world can do universal healthcare better and cheaper than everybody else?
    Then I would be wrong and we move on. If you are wrong you have dismantled the greatest system in the world and we will never be able to go back. What you are seeing now are private businesses dropping healthcare coverage for their employees and forcing them into the exchange. When service is poor the outrage is going to be for a single payer system and of course the people of the country will have the advantage of understanding what a wait list is for surgery and what it means to wait in ER's for hours.

    Yes, this country can do it better and cheaper but not with federal interference, regulations, law suits but rather more competition.

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, the world I live in is one where things aren't equal. Unlike your utopia where apparently every state has the same needs, wants, demographics, income, etc. Like, Alaska is a state with basically nobody living there to pay for stuff. But it also holds some national interests like a crapload of oil and some military strategic positioning. (because Russia is totally coming to get us still, right?) So yes, they're going to get some more federal dollars than other states might. North Dakota would be the third largest nuclear superpower if it were a separate country. Those cost a bit. And nobody lives there. (although their tax situation has certainly changed recently with the oil boom)

    For a while, Louisiana was a big collector of federal dollars. Turns out having a major city get torn to pieces by a massive hurricane means your state ends up needing a little help. And I'm supposed to bitch and moan because it's not fair to me?

    No, friend, you are the one living in this weird universe where you think life should be fair. Not me.
    Thus the foreign concept of neighbor helping neighbor on something you fail to understand, a NATIONAL DISASTER. I don't recall the uninsured being a NATIONAL Disaster? I don't recall a personal responsibility issue requiring a mandate from the Federal Govt. I don't recall the people of your state paying for those in my state that are uninsured and not paying their bills.

    What I do see however are people thinking only with their hearts and ignoring the current and past failures of the Federal Govt. to solve social problems. You are right, life isn't fair so why is it we have a liberal group trying to legislate equal outcome and not simply equal opportunity?

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The answer is the free enterprise and true capitalistic economy that built this country, you know, the one that allows you to make a fool of yourself with every post?
    We have had a "free market" WITHIN STATES for decades, the premise you hold to SO TIGHTLY.....and it has NOT produced cheaper care, greater coverage or better outcomes for consumers. It does not produce competition within states and certainly will not if expanded since nearly all consumption is local, without knowledge of prices. Beyond this, the concept of profiting from human misery and affliction is immoral. Health care is a right, not a privilege. The system in the US is beyond broken, holding to a broken system is insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Then I would be wrong and we move on. If you are wrong you have dismantled the greatest system in the world and we will never be able to go back. What you are seeing now are private businesses dropping healthcare coverage for their employees and forcing them into the exchange. When service is poor the outrage is going to be for a single payer system and of course the people of the country will have the advantage of understanding what a wait list is for surgery and what it means to wait in ER's for hours.

    Yes, this country can do it better and cheaper but not with federal interference, regulations, law suits but rather more competition.
    "Competition" is often touted as a magical fix to market woes. But the thing is, health care isn't a free market and never really can be. Choice is central to a proper free market, and health care isn't really a choice. If Sony makes a crappy television for the price, I can get a Samsung. Or a laptop. Or a tennis racket. Or nothing. I can buy a competing product, an alternative entertainment product, or just buy nothing and play with myself instead. Wait, that came out wrong.

    Anyway, health care isn't like this. There isn't really a competing product. I can't really shop around for a better price. Call any hospital and ask them how much for some procedure. You wont get a direct answer. And they certainly wont let on the fact that you'll get charged $3.50 for a cotton ball and $7 for a single tylenol pill. You also can't get a different procedure. (usually) Your hip that hurts constantly isn't solved by getting an appendectomy. And choosing not to get health care isn't an option sometimes. A life of pain, or death, isn't a choice.

    Our wonderful free market has created a situation in which a replacement hip that costs $400 to manufacture gets billed out at $37,000. You did not read that wrong. And that's just for the implant. All said, you're over $100,000 in some cases.

    And don't tell me it's because the market isn't free enough unless you're willing to tell me which regulation results in a 10,000% markup.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    We'll see, won't we? You say you "get it," but what you get is what you've heard, and what you heard is propaganda. Everything I've heard for and against this thing is propaganda. But I read as much of the bill as I can understand, and this is the thing for me: I think the bill looks great. I think it's filled with fantastic provisions. It increases competition, gives subsidies, requires people to obtain coverage (many don't like this but it can't work any other way without a federal public option), it prevents insurance companies from denying people based on pre-existing conditions, has the minimum standards for insurance policies which protects consumers, reforms medicare to some extent, and gives states say in what they want to offer. I don't think it's a job killer at all. I think most large companies won't change their policies at all. The company I work for didn't. Small businesses (with under 50 employees) are completely exempt.

    Maybe you know all this stuff. But most people just hear how terrible the bill is and have no idea what's in it. I read it and I like it. Maybe you don't. We'll find out how it works out, but remember this: we're comparing what will kick in soon to what we had throughout the first decade of this country. Health insurance premiums were skyrocketing and people were being denied care. It was horrible. And Republicans had spent the last 20 years blocking any potential health care reform. This isn't a commercial for bleach where you're comparing one white shirt to a whiter shirt. You're comparing this white shirt to the shirt with red wine on it.
    Of course I "get it" from what I've heard. And read, and seen and experienced. My son in law, daughter and three of my grandkids lost their health insurance because of this disaster. They are not rich, they are not poor. But they were doing the right things, obeying the law, being productive, not lazy and expecting others to supply their needs, not stupid because they work and so on. So you keep on thinking this "bill looks great" but I suspect there is a great deal of deliberate blindness on your part. Because it's just not my family that has been and will be negatively effected by this disaster. And oh, btw, guess who will be picking up the tab come 1 jan for them? The fewer productive people that are left standing after Obamadon'tcare that has ruined or harmed so many lives already.

    So yeah, I know what is in this law and it ain't good for America.
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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    We have had a "free market" WITHIN STATES for decades, the premise you hold to SO TIGHTLY.....and it has NOT produced cheaper care, greater coverage or better outcomes for consumers. It does not produce competition within states and certainly will not if expanded since nearly all consumption is local, without knowledge of prices. Beyond this, the concept of profiting from human misery and affliction is immoral. Health care is a right, not a privilege. The system in the US is beyond broken, holding to a broken system is insane.
    But you have the opportunity to move to a state that does do it cheaper. Maybe you can get your liberal leadership to arrange for transfer packages for you. What we really need are more regulations, more attorneys, more price control, more bureaucrats so we can get to that utopia much quicker. I quite frankly profited for over 35 years starving kids, killing seniors, and polluting the air, isn't that what you claim conservatives do?

    I guess if healthcare is a right then it is the right of those administering it to tell you what to eat, drink, how to live your life, what you can and cannot do to your own body. I have been wrong all these years, accepting personal responsibility for my own healthcare and eating/drinking habits, and of course my own drug usage. Had I only known that some govt. bureaucrat knew better and was there to take that responsibility away from me, life would have been so much easier. Want to compare resumes?

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    so we can get to that utopia much quicker.
    Oh well, back to this meme again. You are just repeating yourself, going off topic and getting nowhere.

    Pad your post count with someone else, your argument was toast a few pages back.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #299
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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    "Competition" is often touted as a magical fix to market woes. But the thing is, health care isn't a free market and never really can be. Choice is central to a proper free market, and health care isn't really a choice. If Sony makes a crappy television for the price, I can get a Samsung. Or a laptop. Or a tennis racket. Or nothing. I can buy a competing product, an alternative entertainment product, or just buy nothing and play with myself instead. Wait, that came out wrong.

    Anyway, health care isn't like this. There isn't really a competing product. I can't really shop around for a better price. Call any hospital and ask them how much for some procedure. You wont get a direct answer. And they certainly wont let on the fact that you'll get charged $3.50 for a cotton ball and $7 for a single tylenol pill. You also can't get a different procedure. (usually) Your hip that hurts constantly isn't solved by getting an appendectomy. And choosing not to get health care isn't an option sometimes. A life of pain, or death, isn't a choice.

    Our wonderful free market has created a situation in which a replacement hip that costs $400 to manufacture gets billed out at $37,000. You did not read that wrong. And that's just for the implant. All said, you're over $100,000 in some cases.

    And don't tell me it's because the market isn't free enough unless you're willing to tell me which regulation results in a 10,000% markup.
    What is exactly your expertise on healthcare and what the individual needs? Isn't it amazing how that one size fits all package seems to change depending on the issue? What you and others want to ignore is that you influence your healthcare by what you do to your body but I seem that freedom of choice only matters on certain issues. You see it is ok to murder an unborn baby, ok to inhale or interject drugs into your body, ok to demand that someone else pay for your personal responsibility issues but only in the liberal world.

    Told you the story about offering healthcare to my 1200 employees and how 50% of them opted into the program. What should I have done to force the other 50% to opt in? You see, they know there are no consequences for being stupid in today's world because some liberal will create a program to save them from their own poor

    Why does any liberal care what a hip replacement costs? Why do you really care if someone in my state is insured or not? Why don't you and others always get so uptight about issues that don't concern you and why don't you stop trying to legislate equal outcome and personal responsibility issues?.

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    Re: Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Oh well, back to this meme again. You are just repeating yourself, going off topic and getting nowhere.

    Pad your post count with someone else, your argument was toast a few pages back.
    Well, I am glad to hear that you are the one who determines whether or not a post is toast. I sure wish I could be as smart as you think you are then I would have no problems at all. I look forward to that utopian world that liberals are creating for us all and of course no cost to those of us paying federal income taxes. The outstanding liberal results are models for the world, 17 trillion dollar debt in a 16 trillion dollar economy, 48 million on food stamps, stagnant economic growth, 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers and yet people like you aren't satisfied. I don't get it, stellar numbers created by the people who are building this utopian country. All it takes is more spending of other people's money as the last group of liberals didn't spend the money right but this group will.

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