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Dems move to force Republicans to reopen the government

Oftencold said:
That's because the mental and political climate that makes Modern Liberalism possible in large numbers supposedly rational adults is the fundamental reason that so many of our public policies are childish fantasies.

You see?
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There is a place for conservatives and there is a place for liberals in this country and in our government. When you post stuff like this you come off as one of those drones who think one side is Jesus and the other is Satan. I promise you, you are smarter than this.
 
Wow, this little turn has the cons in full meltdown insult mode. If Obamacare is not the end of the world and the dems spank the budget through that would be really bad for the reps. The reps probably do not want the dems to be the ones to start the government back up because it would really put a bad light on their claims they want the government running when they cry and whine about the democrats getting it running.
 
poweRob said:
There is a place for conservatives and there is a place for liberals in this country and in our government. When you post stuff like this you come off as one of those drones who think one side is Jesus and the other is Satan. I promise you, you are smarter than this.
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In a republic, if it is to remain a republic, there is little room for rampant foolishness in the electorate. Modern Liberal policies and philosophies are based in fantasies detached from Reality. I am smarter than to be drawn into a dreamworld and attempt to apply its principles to governing a nation.

To deny this is to serve no one's best interests. Liberty is a vanishingly rare condition in human affairs, and unlikely to ever be reestablished in a technologically advanced age if it is lost.

Someone really ought to point these things out, if for no other reason than to experience the elegant beauty of poignancy.
 
Oftencold said:
In a republic, if it is to remain a republic, there is little room for rampant foolishness in the electorate. Modern Liberal policies and philosophies are based in fantasies detached from Reality.
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No they are not. You just disagree. You need to learn how to disagree without straw-manning up a demon.

Oftencold said:
I am smarter than to be drawn into a dreamworld and attempt to apply its principles to governing a nation.

To deny this is to serve no one's best interests. Liberty is a vanishingly rare condition in human affairs, and unlikely to ever be reestablished in a technologically advanced age if it is lost.
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If you've bought into any notion that society is worse now than before, you have bought into a lie. The kind of lie that uses fear as a way to call for obedience in it's followers. Yesterday wasn't better than today.

Oftencold said:
Someone really ought to point these things out, if for no other reason than to experience the elegant beauty of poignancy.
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I see, you believe you are superior. Perhaps I was wrong about you?
 
JMak00 said:
Just like they resorted to a "trick" to pass ACA and want to rely on a "trick" the to have the President raise the debt ceiling himself, I guess the Democrats will use a "trick" to get their way. Pathetic, but that's how they operate...
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Right. Because voting to repeal the PPACA 42 times? Kosher. Fighting it to the Supreme Court? Awesome. Holding up the the entire Federal budget and risk a potential economic crisis? It's the American way! Utilizing an obscure procedural rule to bring the bill to a vote in the House? OMG IT'S GAY HITLER TRICKERY!!!
 
That is because they will be taken out in primaries. As they should be.

Morality Games said:
Getting Republicans to dissent is far more difficult than their Democratic counterparts, but there are a couple dozen moderates who are getting raked over the coals in their own centrist districts. That being said, the House Democrats would still have to offer them "something" that could convince skeptics at least in their own districts that their dissent was worth undermining GOP solidarity, and the Senate and Obama would have to approve that deal.

... it could establish a healthy precedent if Republicans as well as Democrats could collude with each other against their own parties.
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Deuce said:
Which trick do you think allowed the passage of the ACA?
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Parliamentary procedure called reconciliation that is reserved for budget bills. Tell me you knew...
 
Deuce said:
Which trick do you think allowed the passage of the ACA?
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It's a debatable point.

The ACA as it stood in passed in the senate would not pass in the house as it was constituted at the time. The way that the house wanted to pass it wouldn't pass muster in the Senate after Kennedy's seat was replaced with Scott Brown.

So a deal was struck in the House to pass the ACA, with essentially a verbal agreement that a separate bill amending ACA with all the issues the House needed to get people on board would be passed by the Senate utilizing reconciliation.

Thus, they basically piece mailed the final bill into two separate parts singularly due to the technicality of being able to use the reconciliation process on one part of it.

Completely legal and reasonable to do by congressional rules...JUST like what the Republicans are doing right now...but at the very least debatable in it's application and outside the norm...JUST like what the Republicans are doing right now.
 
poweRob said:
No they are not. You just disagree. You need to learn how to disagree without straw-manning up a demon.



If you've bought into any notion that society is worse now than before, you have bought into a lie. The kind of lie that uses fear as a way to call for obedience in it's followers. Yesterday wasn't better than today.



I see, you believe you are superior. Perhaps I was wrong about you?
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Well, I have little more to tell you. I am superior by the way, as a thinker, to people who fantasize away an unsupportable debt and a belief that the Productive will willingly support the Indolents in perpetuity. In such company superiority of mind is an unchallenging goal indeed. Surely you can agree with this?

What exactly do you see Society as? I note with some distaste that most Leftists confuse and conflate "Society" with "Government."

By the way, I don't see the Left as a demon. According to the popular image, demons stood up to Authority, were willing to rebel against said Authority to further their ideals, are noted for individuality, and know full well when they are presenting a load of false promises and lies to the gullible.
 
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head of joaquin said:
Ah, the reverso-meme. Only in teapartybizarroworld is forcing the House to actually vote a "trick".

Boehner has used procedural tricks to keep a clean CR from a floor vote. I hope the Democrats can circumvent that trickery and force the GOP cowards to go on record.
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You mean using procedural rules, right? Different than using a rule for budgets to pass the ACA...
 
Oftencold said:
Well, I have little more to tell you. I am superior by the way, as a thinker, to people who fantasize away an unsupportable debt and a belief that the Productive will willingly support the Indolents in perpetuity. In such company superiority of mind is an unchallenging goal indeed. Surely you can agree with this?

What exactly do you see Society as? I note with some distaste that most Leftists confuse and conflate "Society" with "Government."

By the way, I don't see the Left as a demon. According to the popular image, demons stood up to Authority, were willing to rebel against said Authority to further their ideals, are noted for individuality, and know full well when they are presenting a load of false promises and lies to the gullible.
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Yeah, well that's what I thought. I guess I was wrong. My bad.

You may continue with your superiority complex supported by... "Libruls bad herp derp."
 
poweRob said:
Yeah, well that's what I thought. I guess I was wrong. My bad.

You may continue with your superiority complex supported by... "Libruls bad herp derp."
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You see? You are offered several channels for rational conversation, deeper consideration of the issues, and their underpinning philosophies, and instead of taking the minimal effort required to rise to the tiny challenge, you circle back to an earlier, unsophisticated, vapid statement.

Progress is not measured in receptions of a circular path, you know.

Carry on.
 
JMak00 said:
Just like they resorted to a "trick" to pass ACA and want to rely on a "trick" the to have the President raise the debt ceiling himself, I guess the Democrats will use a "trick" to get their way. Pathetic, but that's how they operate...
Click to expand...

Forcing an up or down vote is a 'trick'? I would have thought that sane people would have thought being able to shut down the government at all was the biggest trick of all, but I guess up is down in today's world.
 
Republicans are still trying to nullify laws enacted in past Congresses without actually nulluifying them.
Just as Repubs like Birther Cruz's Father continue to try to delegitimize the President by calling him a Muslim.
Repubs are losing the debate and now want to "negotiate" over "laws".
We have heard them say what is coming next, SS, Medicare, Medicaid and
every other social program that Paul Ryan once benefitted from but now wants to kill.
 
Cardinal said:
Right. Because voting to repeal the PPACA 42 times? Kosher. Fighting it to the Supreme Court? Awesome. Holding up the the entire Federal budget and risk a potential economic crisis? It's the American way! Utilizing an obscure procedural rule to bring the bill to a vote in the House? OMG IT'S GAY HITLER TRICKERY!!!
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Way to put your ignorance on display...props.
 
NIMBY said:
Republicans are still trying to nullify laws enacted in past Congresses without actually nulluifying them.
Just as Repubs like Birther Cruz's Father continue to try to delegitimize the President by calling him a Muslim.
Repubs are losing the debate and now want to "negotiate" over "laws".
We have heard them say what is coming next, SS, Medicare, Medicaid and
every other social program that Paul Ryan once benefitted from but now wants to kill.
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DOMA says what????

You may go now.
 
NIMBY said:
Republicans are still trying to nullify laws enacted in past Congresses without actually nulluifying them.
Just as Repubs like Birther Cruz's Father continue to try to delegitimize the President by calling him a Muslim.
Repubs are losing the debate and now want to "negotiate" over "laws".
We have heard them say what is coming next, SS, Medicare, Medicaid and
every other social program that Paul Ryan once benefitted from but now wants to kill.
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I like how you already posted this today and ignored my response.
 
Oftencold said:
You see? You are offered several channels for rational conversation, deeper consideration of the issues, and their underpinning philosophies, and instead of taking the minimal effort required to rise to the tiny challenge, you circle back to an earlier, unsophisticated, vapid statement.

Progress is not measured in receptions of a circular path, you know.

Carry on.
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You offered contentless garbage hodge-podge of throwing generalized crap at the wall and pretending it stuck. You supported nothing you said so actually there is no engagement to be had in such clap-trap. When one does that it is in fact strawmanning up a entire... "herp derp librul bad herp derp" scenario. But who am I to tell someone whose declared themselves superior?

:lamo
 
azgreg said:
Dems move to force Republicans to reopen the government

Can this happen this way?
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It can but the odds are against it:

Since 2002, 74 discharge petitions have been introduced. None have received the requisite number of signatures to progress to a floor vote. And all but one of those petitions was initiated by a member of the minority party
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The article goes on to say:

Discharge petitions are markedly more successful when they are initiated or threatened by members of the majority party.
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How the Discharge Petition Can Help Congress Move on Immigration Reform | Brookings Institution

I don't see any current GOP member who will risk their standing in the majority party to 'buck' the leadership by sponsoring this...but who know...
 
NIMBY said:
At 53 posts, you're still in the womb when it comes to telling people where to go son.
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And I just showed you the door...maybe you ought figure it out before you go off stupid at the mouth...bye-bye
 
Dezaad said:
Forcing an up or down vote is a 'trick'? I would have thought that sane people would have thought being able to shut down the government at all was the biggest trick of all, but I guess up is down in today's world.
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Wow...you Democrats, liberals, and progressives just don't know jack squat about anything, do you? "Trick" is not my word here, it's from the article and it's precisely what is being done. Just like using a budget reconciliation trick to pass a non-budget bill like ACA. What are you having trouble here with???
 
Don't you love these threads where 6 members are shown but only 5 names appear?
I wonder which political lean hides the most around here, like Mitt did behind Ann's dress.
 
poweRob said:
You offered contentless garbage hodge-podge of throwing generalized crap at the wall and pretending it stuck. You supported nothing you said so actually there is no engagement to be had in such clap-trap. When one does that it is in fact strawmanning up a entire... "herp derp librul bad herp derp" scenario. But who am I to tell someone whose declared themselves superior?

:lamo
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If I supported nothing I said, or if it wasn't self apparent, it should have been easy to refute rationally. Simple denial is not a rational refutation. And constant repetition of childish phrases in a functional adult is tiresome.

One generally cannot refute a well constructed and stated Conservative political argument with a modern American Liberal Argument and remain rational, I've noticed. This is because the liberal Argument will usually be made in denial of history, experience, and arithmetic, but will usually rely heavily upon supposition, assumption and fantasy. Virtually any such argument that includes a promise that something desirable will be provided "free," or that anything government proposes will remain within the budget established for it at its inception, will fit this description.
 
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another internet tough guy from the f right-wing
 
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