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Thread: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

  1. #61
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if you use force to take life, liberty, of property, your committing a crime, we all agree government is here to secure those rights, so it is not taking a moral position on those, its fulfilling it primary duty of its existence...to secure rights of the people.
    Ah, glad you've read your Locke. Would gays be taking away life, liberty or property if they were to get married?

    but government is not a morality authority at all, it has not been given a power to decide whether marriage between two people is right or wrong, therefore it has not power to promote nor deny such a thing.

    government has no authority in marriage or sexuality, those who wish to use government as a force to stop SSM and those who use SSM as a way of using government to promote through laws/polices as normal behavior are both wrong.

    government should be completely our of marriage and anything of a sexual behavior.
    And yet, we live in a society where government and legal recognition go in hand because of the same free market policies which you advocate. The government is in charge of legally recognizing contracts with both private businesses, amongst individuals and individuals and the government itself.

    It recognizes citizenship, guardianship (of both people and property) as well as heirs, marriages and all of their ramifications. All that said, keeping a consistent guideline for who is eligible for the benefits, rights and privildges is of utmost importance. As it stands, the guidelines for who is allowed to marry and who is not are not in any way consistent. We allow heterosexuals to enter a 2 party contract and yet deny homosexuals from doing the same. Why? Would the laws change? No. Would our general understanding of the universe change? No. So why is it so important for the government to keep homosexuals isolated?

    I don't care about right and wrong. I care about consistency.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So wait, your personal opinion on interracial marriage is not needed - but your personal opinion on gay marriage is?
    Both aren't even mentioned in the Bill of Rights...

    I think that says a lot and justifies both without directly pointing the ideas out... I think if the founding fathers were obsessed with gay marriage and interracial marriage they would have made an amendment addressing the issue. Somehow our founders thought the Fist Amendment was enough to address that issue if the need for it to be address was ever a an issue.

    Remember there were free black men when the Bill of Rights was ratified - and as free individuals they had the right to marry whomever they pleased.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You're right - the Bill of Rights mentions nothing at all about marriage...

    This is why I don't make an issue about marriage when it comes to civil liberties...

    The Bill of Rights are individual rights NOT collective rights - to elaborate further the Bill of rights LIMITS the government, they were not civil liberties granted to the people by the government for the people but rights manifested by the people for the people...
    So should interracial marriages be banned? For example, if a state wants to ban them - does it have that right? Please stop lecturing me on what bits of the constitution you understand. After 6 years on DP, I've discussed the constitution in further depth than you could possibly grasp. Now answer the question.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'm not exactly a present day republican nor a neocon but your misunderstanding of my libertarian views and understanding of the constitution shows just how immature you actually are.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I'm not exactly a present day republican nor a neocon but your misunderstanding of my libertarian views and understanding of the constitution shows just how immature you actually are.
    Alright, John Galt, whatever you say.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So should interracial marriages be banned? For example, if a state wants to ban them - does it have that right? Please stop lecturing me on what bits of the constitution you understand. After 6 years on DP, I've discussed the constitution in further depth than you could possibly grasp. Now answer the question.
    You're asking me weather "I think it should be banned" and excluding the idea that the Constitution vaguely banned the idea...

    I'm not a legislator so my opinion is moot, however I generally agree with the constitution - the document is vague after the Bill of Rights ( I wish it was more blunt) ...

    Since I have dated several black woman in my life what do you think my position on interracial relationships or even marriage is??

    I like who I like and I go with the woman I like regardless of race.... If that was against the law that would be a violation of both my girl and my civil liberties - more specifically the Fist Amendment..

    I'm not shallow - I don't view race as a reason to reject a woman I may like...

    Then again I really don't like black/latino/white thugs either.....

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You're asking me weather "I think it should be banned" and excluding the idea that the Constitution vaguely banned the idea...

    I'm not a legislator so my opinion is moot, however I generally agree with the constitution - the document is vague after the Bill of Rights ( I wish it was more blunt) ...

    Since I have dated several black woman in my life what do you think my position on interracial relationships or even marriage is??

    I like who I like and I go with the woman I like regardless of race.... If that was against the law that would be a violation of both my girl and my civil liberties - more specifically the Fist Amendment..

    I'm not shallow - I don't view race as a reason to reject a woman I may like...

    Then again I really don't like black/latino/white thugs either.....
    You're not answering my question. I asked you based on your own arguments whether or not interracial marriage should be banned by states and whether they have a legal right to do so.

    According to your words:

    Interracial marriage:

    1. It's not in the constitution.
    2. It's not a right.
    3. It's not a civil liberty.

    So should states have a right to ban it? Yes or no.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #68
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ah, glad you've read your Locke. Would gays be taking away life, liberty or property if they were to get married?.
    the answer is of coarse no, two people getting married does not infringe on my rights.




    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And yet, we live in a society where government and legal recognition go in hand because of the same free market policies which you advocate. The government is in charge of legally recognizing contracts with both private businesses, amongst individuals and individuals and the government itself.

    It recognizes citizenship, guardianship (of both people and property) as well as heirs, marriages and all of their ramifications. All that said, keeping a consistent guideline for who is eligible for the benefits, rights and privildges is of utmost importance. As it stands, the guidelines for who is allowed to marry and who is not are not in any way consistent. We allow heterosexuals to enter a 2 party contract and yet deny homosexuals from doing the same. Why? Would the laws change? No. Would our general understanding of the universe change? No. So why is it so important for the government to keep homosexuals isolated?

    I don't care about right and wrong. I care about consistency.
    I am not suggesting one person be treated differently than another, people should be treated the same.

    however today marriage is by license, and nothing can be a right with a licensed attached to it, no right needs the approval of a government official and that's what your getting then the government bureaucrat signs off on it.

    yes government is suppose to protect contract, however I don't see their duty as promoting any such contract.

    currently marriage is presented as a privilege, and privileges which can be denied, because government controls privileges, they don't control rights.

    which is why government needs to remove themselves from marriage, and it recognized as a right, without that government interference.

    as long as government is involved in marriage and sexuality, there will continued to be problems, and government is given no authority in those two areas.
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-04-13 at 10:09 PM.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Alright, John Galt, whatever you say.
    Dude, you don't even know what the **** I stand for...

    I'm an individual that hates your society and you're the "group think" pawn that feels all good inside because you do as you're told and follows the rules.

    Too bad I was taught the problem you presently have but used my intellect to see past this collectivist robot bull**** by the age of 22-23...

    So do as your told, hate as your told, vote as your told and propagandize as you're told and I'm sure we can have a fun debate for a few seconds.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're not answering my question. I asked you based on your own arguments whether or not interracial marriage should be banned by states and whether they have a legal right to do so.

    According to your words:

    Interracial marriage:

    1. It's not in the constitution.
    2. It's not a right.
    3. It's not a civil liberty.

    So should states have a right to ban it? Yes or no.
    I have already explained to you that interracial marriage is legal per the Fourteenth Amendment (it was legal before that)...

    You do realize the equal protection clause justifies just about ANYTHING your mind can make up correct?

    This is the debate you want to have is it not?

    what limits are placed on the Equal Protection clause?

    Oh yeah it's anarchistic babble that can mean or defy just about gay marriage to socialism...

    I suppose the vagueness works for anything you want it to mean..

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