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Thread: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

  1. #281
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleCellOrganism View Post
    I'll admit that I get a natural "eww" reaction from homosexuality / incest.

    But it seems wrong to legislate that reaction; if bros/sis want to get married, so be it, same with two of the same gender.

    It's none of our business really. In Germany you can marry animals ...

    (and you reap what you sow, E.G. people should be free to make their choices, and deal with the consequences themselves - not have 'parent' govt. institutions attempt to form their behavior)

    ^ for that reason, homosexuality and incest will NEVER be socially acceptable - the outcome is personal pain / detriment, so natural cycles keep these two sexual desires at bay.

    This is why Russia (atheistic) and the USA (Christendom) are both anti-homosexual / incest - it's not about 'religion' but outcomes of life choices.

    Nobody WANTS to be gay or incestuous ... desire leads to action, action leads to personal detriment -> society sees the detriment and makes it unacceptable.
    That "eww" feeling is natural though for humans and primates in general.

    And when people don't have that "eww" feeling toward at least those they were raised with, then it can be a strong sign that there was some form of abuse or neglect. It is stupid to ignore that, especially when allowing parent/children or siblings to marry in general will only make some to feel that circumventing that aversion is okay (but since actions to circumvent it must occur mainly during childhood, then it would be wrong).

    I have little issue with making exceptions for those siblings who were not raised together and really didn't even know each other being in relationships, but they should be given genetic counseling at the least because that is a very real problem and it hurts society to allow people to take such risks when it comes to children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That "eww" feeling is natural though for humans and primates in general.

    And when people don't have that "eww" feeling toward at least those they were raised with, then it can be a strong sign that there was some form of abuse or neglect. It is stupid to ignore that, especially when allowing parent/children or siblings to marry in general will only make some to feel that circumventing that aversion is okay (but since actions to circumvent it must occur mainly during childhood, then it would be wrong).

    I have little issue with making exceptions for those siblings who were not raised together and really didn't even know each other being in relationships, but they should be given genetic counseling at the least because that is a very real problem and it hurts society to allow people to take such risks when it comes to children.
    I don't disagree, but then you're left creating a system of control instituted by other humans. (which is worse, and leads to abusing people)

    Not a good idea. And like I argued, homosexuality / incest will naturally weed itself out and be kept at bay.

    Look at Rome circa Augustus. [every culture in history has been anti-homosexual / anti-incest | I see no reason to legislate a system which creates abuse worse than the negatives of homosexuality and incest]

    In other words: Government institution legislating morality is WORSE than the negatives of the ~5% who choose unnatural sexual practices.

    (for a parent incesting their child, our existing child abuse laws condemn them - and should since a child is helpless/innocent)
    Last edited by SingleCellOrganism; 10-07-13 at 05:52 PM.

  3. #283
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleCellOrganism View Post
    I don't disagree, but then you're left creating a system of control instituted by other humans. (which is worse, and leads to abusing people)

    Not a good idea. And like I argued, homosexuality / incest will naturally weed itself out and be kept at bay.

    Look at Rome circa Augustus. [every culture in history has been anti-homosexual / anti-incest | I see no reason to legislate a system which creates abuse worse than the negatives of homosexuality and incest]
    There is a balance.

    But banning incest and incest marriages isn't anything new. And since we have science to support that such relationships are not healthy (the vast majority of the time), then it can be easily shown how restricting such marriages furthers a legitimate state interest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is a balance.

    But banning incest and incest marriages isn't anything new. And since we have science to support that such relationships are not healthy (the vast majority of the time), then it can be easily shown how restricting such marriages furthers a legitimate state interest.
    But State Interest is SCARY!

    Unless a child under 18 is involved, then people should be free to choose to live their lives as they please.

    ('reaping what we sow' is all the 'punishment' for deviance we need - state 'punishment' becomes tyranny long term - look at the drug war)

    Drug users pay a heavy toll.

    Incestuous relationships pay a similarly heavy toll.

    Do we need anything beyond that? I would argue no!

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleCellOrganism View Post
    But State Interest is SCARY!

    Unless a child under 18 is involved, then people should be free to choose to live their lives as they please.

    ('reaping what we sow' is all the 'punishment' for deviance we need - state 'punishment' becomes tyranny long term - look at the drug war)

    Drug users pay a heavy toll.

    Incestuous relationships pay a similarly heavy toll.

    Do we need anything beyond that? I would argue no!
    But here's the thing, technically it is likely that one of the person's was under 18 when the relationship was first influenced. We know this from the research showing when the aversion develops. So it is like saying that we shouldn't prosecute someone for child abuse if it isn't discovered til after the child is 18.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But here's the thing, technically it is likely that one of the person's was under 18 when the relationship was first influenced. We know this from the research showing when the aversion develops. So it is like saying that we shouldn't prosecute someone for child abuse if it isn't discovered til after the child is 18.
    Like you said, there certainly is a 'balance'.

    In no circumstance should a pedophile be 'let off the hook' for their crime.

    So if it can be established in court that the parent was abusing their child, then they should be prosecuted.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleCellOrganism View Post
    Like you said, there certainly is a 'balance'.

    In no circumstance should a pedophile be 'let off the hook' for their crime.

    So if it can be established in court that the parent was abusing their child, then they should be prosecuted.
    But a big clue is if a person wants to be in an intimate relationship with someone they are related to and/or that they grew up with. And it isn't just parents that abuse children within a family. In fact, they are finding more and more that older brothers, particularly those with a large age gap between them and the younger sibling (of either sex) are the second most likely perpetrator of incestuous child abuse.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    And now Corbett is apologizing after rightie talkers defended what Corbett actually said.
    He's another one-term gov, as 2010 gets reversed next year.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. A natural psychological aversion that I already posted info on earlier in this thread. It is something that develops in those raised together, even if there isn't any blood relation.
    You're not the only one who's noted that. I believe that I have that post above this referenced post and within the last two or three pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleCellOrganism View Post
    ^ for that reason, homosexuality and incest will NEVER be socially acceptable - the outcome is personal pain / detriment, so natural cycles keep these two sexual desires at bay.
    You mean like interracial sex/marriage will never be socially acceptable?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But here's the thing, technically it is likely that one of the person's was under 18 when the relationship was first influenced. We know this from the research showing when the aversion develops. So it is like saying that we shouldn't prosecute someone for child abuse if it isn't discovered til after the child is 18.
    If it can be proven that it occurred prior to 18 then yes. But that still remains under child abuse laws. There is no need to have additional laws for what is already covered. While the aversion can be used as evidence towards possible abuse, it is not a clear conviction.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    However, there is still a psychological aversion to such relationships that does develop in most households where the siblings are raised together.
    But if they aren't raised together, due to split households or foster care, or they don't have a psychological aversion to such relationships, then what? The state's interest in restricting those relationships is.......

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