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Thread: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

  1. #251
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    For medical reasons - not moral reasons. Children born out of cousin marriages have a high incidence of developmental problems.
    actually I think the incident for birth abnormalities from cousin type unions are pretty low

    Go Ahead, Kiss Your Cousin | DiscoverMagazine.com

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is a right. Gun licenses are issued. Is gun ownership not a right?

    But equal protection of the law is a right in everything the government has a hand in. Including marriage.
    license as in carrying, is that what you mean?

    yes, everyone is to be treated equally under the law, by GOVERNMENT only!

    but because government uses a license as the tool of marriage, its sets it own standard [based on sexuality] for what people must do to get that license, therefore some people are denied marriage, and this is what I have stated many times, government is not in the business of sexuality in creating laws /polices, therefore they have no authority to stop people from marrying.

    you and I have many many rights to marry ,carry a firearm, however government has moved into these rights, and asserting their powers over them unconstitutionally.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    license as in carrying, is that what you mean?

    yes, everyone is to be treated equally under the law, by GOVERNMENT only!

    but because government uses a license as the tool of marriage, its sets it own standard [based on sexuality] for what people must do to get that license, therefore some people are denied marriage, and this is what I have stated many times, government is not in the business of sexuality in creating laws /polices, therefore they have no authority to stop people from marrying.

    you and I have many many rights to marry ,carry a firearm, however government has moved into these rights, and asserting their powers over them unconstitutionally.
    It doesn't work that way. The government has to be able to justify any restrictions on any licenses/contracts by showing that a legitimate state interest is furthered by that restriction.

    For example, the government issues driver's licenses. They have a restriction on age for them. 16 most places. States can justify this age restriction easily by showing normal height needed to be able to drive safely, safe driver mentality likely to begin, and other things about age and maturity. On the other hand, the government could not restrict owning a driver's license by saying that Asian women cannot have one, or by saying that those between the ages of 35 and 45 cannot have a license, or that gay men cannot have a driver's license. They have to show how any restrictions further an actual state interest.

    The same goes for marriage, and this was set forth in the biggest case Loving v VA but also in other cases, including Zablocki v Redhail and Turner v Safley.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    actually I think the incident for birth abnormalities from cousin type unions are pretty low

    Go Ahead, Kiss Your Cousin | DiscoverMagazine.com
    Very low. In general, the risk of birth abnormalities due to genetics for children of non-related couples is about 2%, that increases to about 4% when talking about first cousins, but it increases to around 40% when it is siblings or parent/children. Even aunt/nephew or uncle/niece is over 10% risk.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Actually, a conservative with no humor is... a conservative.
    Are you kidding? Try making a joke about liberals and the refrains of "that's not true" and accusations of being a hack and a troll are inevitible. I don't think I've ever seen one liberal think a joke about liberals was funny and harmless. On the other hand, I've posted jokes about right wingers so put that in your juice box and suck on it.
    Last edited by X Factor; 10-06-13 at 09:12 PM.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    You're not a conservative, you just reflexively defend Republican politicians, hate gays, are against abortion....basically agree with them oneverything.
    You really shouldn't be accusing anyone else of being a shill. The resulting irony could literally rip a hole in the space time continuum.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It doesn't work that way. The government has to be able to justify any restrictions on any licenses/contracts by showing that a legitimate state interest is furthered by that restriction.

    For example, the government issues driver's licenses. They have a restriction on age for them. 16 most places. States can justify this age restriction easily by showing normal height needed to be able to drive safely, safe driver mentality likely to begin, and other things about age and maturity. On the other hand, the government could not restrict owning a driver's license by saying that Asian women cannot have one, or by saying that those between the ages of 35 and 45 cannot have a license, or that gay men cannot have a driver's license. They have to show how any restrictions further an actual state interest.


    The same goes for marriage, and this was set forth in the biggest case Loving v VA but also in other cases, including Zablocki v Redhail and Turner v Safley.
    government should not be denying people marriage on the basis of [sexuality], because it has no authority in that area, this also means other laws and policies over the people.

    if government were to have power in that area, then they could makes laws, which favor or oppose a issue.

    the people's sexual behavior is not a duty of government.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    whether you want to call it a license or certificate, anything that is government issued that gives government approval is not a right, rights do not have government authority connected to it, that is a privilege.

    can you explain something to me, because I have asked this question many times and I can not get it answered!

    if marriage is a right, as you say the court has ruled, then how are states banning its institution, since all that would be need would be referring the ussc court case your which you site, can you explain this?........how is unlawful action taking place over a ussc decision?

    mind you, I believe marriage is a right, however if government is a recognizing factor that contracts between two people based on any sexuality then that is not a government authority.

    marriage is a contract, government is here to recognize contract from a basis of economic legality, not sexual aspects , it is not here to decide who gets to make a contract, or to create benefits because citizens make a contract between themselves, or make sexual laws/ policies because of those contracts, because government is not a moral authority.
    It's been answered to you many times on many threads. First and foremost, the SCOTUS cannot act upon a law until it is brought before them after having gone through the lower courts. There have been laws made before that were unconstitutional that were ruled as such by SCOTUS. So how were they ever made if they were unconstitutional? Because they pass the legislatures. It sometimes takes years before a unconstitutional law makes its way up to SCOTUS. Sodomy laws are a good example. How long were they on the books before it was ruled that they violate privacy rights?

    Simply because the government tries to regulate or control something via licenses or other methods, doesn't autocratically makes that something not a right. It can very well be a denied right. Interracial marriage was a denied right, one that took a while before the SCOTUS struck it down.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The problem is that laws against incest aren't based on morality but a large amount of studies that show that inbreeding is not beneficial. They're also based on the very real possibility that children being out of such unions will more than likely have development problems. Obviously, marriage does not necessarily include procreation - however, there is a medical/societal interest in ensuring the gene pool remains as diverse as possible. This makes the approach some states have taken to the matter the most legally consistent one: allow cousin unions as long as at least 1 of the partners is unable to procreate.
    Were that the only basis, I might concur with you but the issue remains that blood relations are not the only consideration that enters into many incest laws. Legal relations are also a factor. Depending on the state, Greg and Marcia Brady would be in violation for either having sex and/or getting married even though they share no blood. Obviously there is something more going on besides a worry of genetic defects. That is even before you consider the futility of such a basis for banning same gender incest or incest where one or both participants are sterile. Finally, if we are banning procreation based upon the risk of an incestuous couple giving birth then any activity/couple combination that holds that same risk or higher needs to be banned. Otherwise the argument fails as being against the risk of birth defects.

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I believe it is a central reason as to why marriage was sanctioned by government in the first place, however if it was not the defining argument I accept that... and now it is as I have stated, any two or more consenting are acceptable despite their intimate status. Marriage no longer has meaning.
    In what manner does it no longer have any meaning? Obviously it will still have legal meaning. Outside of that any meaning placed upon it will be dependant upon individuals. For some, marriage lost its meaning when interracial marriage was no longer illegal. It seems that you will feel that marriage has lost its meaning now that same sex couples can get married. Others won't feel that marriage has lost its meaning until polygamy is reinstated. And for most of us, marriage will still have the meaning that it has always had for us.

    That wasn't me. My point was that sibling marriage does not equal incest. If it did, as you imply, we would definitely have to draw the line that discriminates against incestuous people. See the dilemma for your side?
    Marriage period does not automatically equal any kind of sexual relationship. It may occur in a super-majority of marriages, but it is not a 100% thing. Do we go back to proof that a marriage was consummated?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    Personally, I think it's a grey area when it comes to inbreeding; it's analogous to child abuse or neglect, but it's kind of ridiculous to charge someone with abusing a child that doesn't exist. Possibly the legality could simply be contingent on mandated birth control, with heavy fines for pregnancies. The problem all comes down to protecting unborn children, whilst also not infringing the rights of potential parents. But, this is a TANGENT, Homosexuals can't procreate.
    And what if the child is born with no defects? Should the parents be punished for that even if they are related by blood?

  10. #260
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    And what if the child is born with no defects? Should the parents be punished for that even if they are related by blood?
    They still kinda risked the health of a child (albeit a future one) by having a kid. Moreso than any other couple, that is.


    That said, at some point in the future I expect that Sci-Fi will become reality, and parents will be able to have doctors scan their kids DNA before birth, then remove any potential problems from the inherited genes.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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