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Thread: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I wish you would address the definition of marriage, because that is the snag. If Traditionalists define it OMOW they are said to be discriminatory, but other definitions are also at some level either discriminatory or completely destructive to the institution of marriage. That was the point of the Gov's statement. You see it's not enough to advocate for what you think is fair, you must think about the implications.
    What is "the institution of marriage"? If you're defining that as OMOW, then it's simply a circular argument.

    If you mean, familial bonding, divorce rates, crime rates, etc., things that can be measured and linked to marriage, then you have absolutely no claim to harm done by SSM. All of those problems are not only found in Heterosexual Marriages, they are found in higher amounts. If that's "the institution of marriage", then the Gays are the best thing that could happen to it.

    If "the institution of marriage", is just whatever the hell you want it to be at the time you make the argument, what's the difference between that and just your opinion? Unless it's an objective, quantifiable, and rational metric for judging the "harm" or absence there of, it's a meaningless argument. If you can't define it, then it's inherently meaningless.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    And as I predicted that definition leaves it open to both charges. Marriage is now meaningless. Marriage now discriminates against polygamists.
    So then you should lead the fight for that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    1.)And as I predicted that definition leaves it open to both charges.
    2.)Marriage is now meaningless.
    3.) Marriage now discriminates against polygamists.
    1.) no it doesnt
    2.) no it is not, you simply dont get to determine that
    3.) legally, rights wise, equality wise no it does not

    but if polygamist want to fight for a NEW right to marriage id support it as long as it follows the same rules, consenting sound mind adults.

    Their own hurdle is setting up the foundation of the contract, rules of the relationship, what happens when the 3rd spouse dies, who gets what etc etc
    The easiest solution though is probably have a very basic contract and let each couple define that themselves.

    The institution of marriage can not be harmed and is in no danger at all by giving gays equal rights. Even suggesting so is nonsensical and fantasy implications after that are easily debunked with reality, facts, laws and rights.
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    But, this is a TANGENT, Homosexuals can't procreate.
    Just a good natured pick-a- nit (ya I'm that way)...

    You may be confusing homosexual with infertile. Homosexuals (in general) are not infertile and can have children in exactly the same manner that heterosexual couples that are infertile together (where one or both of the individuals cannot conceive with their spouse) have children. Namely egg donation, surragacy, IVF, and adoption.



    >>>>

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Just a good natured pick-a- nit (ya I'm that way)...

    You may be confusing homosexual with infertile. Homosexuals (in general) are not infertile and can have children in exactly the same manner that heterosexual couples that are infertile together (where one or both of the individuals cannot conceive with their spouse) have children. Namely egg donation, surragacy, IVF, and adoption.



    >>>>
    I'm pretty sure he meant "with each other", unlike siblings or other opposite sex, closely related couples, like was being discussed.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I'm pretty sure he meant "with each other", unlike siblings or other opposite sex, closely related couples, like was being discussed.

    I know, that's why I said it was "a good natured pick-a- nit".

    When such statements go uncorrected though it leaves the impression that different-sex couples have and raise children and same-sex couples don't. However census data shows that about 25% of same-sex couples do in fact have and/or raise children compared to about 40% for different-sex couples.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sex-cou...ry?id=13850332

    >>>>

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Marriage is now meaningless. Marriage now discriminates against polygamists.
    Marriage is only "meaningless" if you chose to make it so.

    My marriage isn't defined by anyone other than me and my spouse.
    Whatever you define yours by doesn't effect mine.

    As far as I'm concerned, anyone foolish enough to want to enter into a consensual group marriage arrangement should be more than free to do so.

    I really don't see why people have a problem with that either.

    So tell me, why would you let other people define your marriage?

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly;1062392209[B
    ]Marriage is only "meaningless" if you chose to make it so.

    My marriage isn't defined by anyone other than me and my spouse.
    Whatever you define yours by doesn't effect mine. [/B]

    As far as I'm concerned, anyone foolish enough to want to enter into a consensual group marriage arrangement should be more than free to do so.

    I really don't see why people have a problem with that either.

    So tell me, why would you let other people define your marriage?
    there is no greater truth than this

    I actually cant imagine how people falsely convenience themselves otherwise

    the legal terms have to be granted by rights and laws but the rest is set by the individual and NOTHING else
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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post



    Your premise is false by several standards. First not all states issue a marriage "license". My piece of paper states "certificate". The SCOUS has repeatedly recognized marriage as a right, so regardless of what states name their piece of paper, it remains a right.

    Secondly, government does indeed have an interest in recognizing marriage on a legal basis. By your standard, with government no longer recognizing the legal status of marriage, your work
    can refuse to cover your spouse via insurance, or more importantly, a hospital could refuse to recognize the right of your spouse over those of your parents or other family members.

    whether you want to call it a license or certificate, anything that is government issued that gives government approval is not a right, rights do not have government authority connected to it, that is a privilege.

    can you explain something to me, because I have asked this question many times and I can not get it answered!

    if marriage is a right, as you say the court has ruled, then how are states banning its institution, since all that would be need would be referring the ussc court case your which you site, can you explain this?........how is unlawful action taking place over a ussc decision?

    mind you, I believe marriage is a right, however if government is a recognizing factor that contracts between two people based on any sexuality then that is not a government authority.

    marriage is a contract, government is here to recognize contract from a basis of economic legality, not sexual aspects , it is not here to decide who gets to make a contract, or to create benefits because citizens make a contract between themselves, or make sexual laws/ policies because of those contracts, because government is not a moral authority.

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    Re: Pa. gov: Gay marriage is like marriage of siblings

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    whether you want to call it a license or certificate, anything that is government issued that gives government approval is not a right, rights do not have government authority connected to it, that is a privilege.

    can you explain something to me, because I have asked this question many times and I can not get it answered!

    if marriage is a right, as you say the court has ruled, then how are states banning its institution, since all that would be need would be referring the ussc court case your which you site, can you explain this?........how is unlawful action taking place over a ussc decision?

    mind you, I believe marriage is a right, however if government is a recognizing factor that contracts between two people based on any sexuality then that is not a government authority.

    marriage is a contract, government is here to recognize contract from a basis of economic legality, not sexual aspects , it is not here to decide who gets to make a contract, or to create benefits because citizens make a contract between themselves, or make sexual laws/ policies because of those contracts, because government is not a moral authority.
    It is a right. Gun licenses are issued. Is gun ownership not a right?

    But equal protection of the law is a right in everything the government has a hand in. Including marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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