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Thread: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

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    Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I hope you are not justifying the bikers actions either before, nor during the criminal assault shown?
    Not at all. Read all my posts in this thread. I'm not justifying it...I'm explaining how I could see events playing out based on the info we have mixed with what I know of biker rides.

    It's reasonable that bikers would be annoyed with someone riding in the middle lane and not moving over

    It's reasonable to think that annoyed biker could take that annoyance too far, and do the actions they did.

    The actions they take in response to that reasonable annoyance were entirely and unquestionably NOT reasonable

    It's like saying its reasonable that someone would be annoyed by a crying baby on a flight...if said annoyed person punches the baby, that punch is unreasonable regardless to the fact their initial annoyance was reasonable.

    Reasonably being annoyed by something doesn't justify an unreasonable action in response. It was stated more to essentially present "motive" for what we witnessed by the bikers at the start of the video. Motive = a reason, not an excuse

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    Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    People seem to ignore the fact that the SUV driver was pulled from the vehicle because of this here:



    I have yet to see any credible evidence that shows that there was violence up until the point when the SUV driver ran into innocent people and their property while fleeing the scene of the initial accident.

    Heaven help us if this driver ever decides he feels threatened while navigating the crowded mall parking lot or some other high foot traffic area, we could all be inadvertently run down and if we tried to stop him we would probably be arrested.
    You don't have to remain at the scene of an acceding if you feel in danger, and multiple dozen bikers illegally stopping all traffic on a road and surrounding you is a reasonable reason to feel in danger REGARDLESS of any other action they did or did not take.

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    Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never heard of it. I thought motorcycles were subject to the same traffic laws as everyone else. Who knew we owed the duty to stay out of the lanes they want to drive in.
    Perhaps this is from me living in an area with multiple memorial rides and multiple sports teams.

    Whenever one sees a clear and obvious "convoy" on the road, general road etiquette that I've ever been exposed to is to generally not impede the flow of that convoy if not needed. It's not a law, any more than provide space at a light for an individual in an adjacent parking lot to be able to pull out is a law, but rather general polite etiquette

    That said, someone pulling all the way up at a light and blocking a parking lots exit doesn't deserve to be intimidated or their window bashed in...and neither did these people.

    The initial annoyance of the bikers, IMHO, is perfectly valid

    EVERYTHING after that point was insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for

    If you're in a bar in Dallas, it's not against the law but it's poor etiquette to scream "**** the cowboys". It's entirely reasonable for some patrons to be annoyed at you. If a patron stabbed you for it, it's be reasonable to suggest that he attacked "was annoyed he said **** the cowboys, and then acted crazy". That doesn't change that stabbing a guy with a knife for bad mouthing your team is INSANE, it's simply suggesting a motive. Motives for crazy actions don't have to be sane, rather often they aren't. Thus the insane response.

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    Re: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is a real problem...But it brings up a good question...When confronted by the situation of being intimidated by a gang of Motorcyclists, or even just a group of any kind, in a car, or what ever, do you have the right to flee the scene of an accident?
    This is why you need more than 10 bullets to kill a dear.

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    Re: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Perhaps this is from me living in an area with multiple memorial rides and multiple sports teams.

    Whenever one sees a clear and obvious "convoy" on the road, general road etiquette that I've ever been exposed to is to generally not impede the flow of that convoy if not needed. It's not a law, any more than provide space at a light for an individual in an adjacent parking lot to be able to pull out is a law, but rather general polite etiquette

    That said, someone pulling all the way up at a light and blocking a parking lots exit doesn't deserve to be intimidated or their window bashed in...and neither did these people.

    The initial annoyance of the bikers, IMHO, is perfectly valid

    EVERYTHING after that point was insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for
    I disagree that the bikers were justified in their initial aggression and they did not just break his window (with a kid in the car), they assaulted the driver. That's not "insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for", that's criminal. Imagine how scared the wife and kid were too.

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    Re: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I disagree that the bikers were justified in their initial aggression. They did not just break his window (with a kid in the car), they assaulted the driver. That's not "insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for", that's criminal.
    What the **** man. How about you read what I write rather than making a bunch of assumptions based on nothing but strawmen you're creating in your head.

    NO WHERE have I said in ANY WAY that their "initial aggression" was "justified".

    I stated I understood the group being annoyed with the SUV.

    That's it.

    Call me crazy, but being ANNOYED at someone isn't [b]Aggression[b/]. The first act of "aggression" was the biker who got in front of him and then began to break causing an accident. You know what I said about that specifically in this thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The guy who was initially hit was being irresponsible and an ass breaking in front of the car forcing the initial collision.
    The second "act of aggression" that was clearly seen was them stopping traffic. What did I say about that SPECIFICALLY in the very first post I made in this thread?

    Group ride or not, the bikers do not own the road nor have legitimate authority to stop traffic like that.
    I then proceeded to call them all Assholes, and prior to that stated I have very little sympathy for them.

    The second post I made, which you quoted, was me trying to essentially give my take on how the events likely begun transpiring because we don't actually get to see that for the most part. The suggestion that the bikers were annoyed with the SUV not getting over was not an EXCUSE for the bikers nor in any way, shape, or form a statement that their actions were justified. Their actions ranged from highly reckless to outright felonious. It was simply trying to provide a hypothesis as to why they began making their aggressive actions to begin with.

    If a police officer suggests that a woman stabbed her husband because she was (wrongly) paranoid that he was cheating on her, are you suggesting the police officer is "justifying" the woman stabbing her husband? NO, it's attempting to explain the motivation for why she did what she did.

    If you want to believe the bikers just RANDOMLY decided to slam their breaks on in front of the guy, be my guest. Based on my previous experience and what I've seen on the videos, I HIGHLY doubt that's the case. I think they likely did it because they were annoyed at the SUV driver, and then proceeded to take that reasonable (imho) annoyance to completely unacceptable and unreasonable lengths with their wreckless and criminal behavior.

    But me stating I can understand them being ANNOYED is in no way, shape, or form justifying or excusing their AGGRESSION when I've REPEATEDLY stated that I disagree with and condemn their ACTIONS.

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    Re: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I disagree that the bikers were justified in their initial aggression and they did not just break his window (with a kid in the car), they assaulted the driver. That's not "insanely reckless, irresponsible, and uncalled for", that's criminal. Imagine how scared the wife and kid were too.
    His window was broken when he was caught (after he ran over and seriously injured a motorcylist).

    His flat tire could very well have occoured from running over those pointy motorcycles and Edwin Mieses.



    The drivers window is clearly being broken near the end of the video above.

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    Re: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    What the **** man. How about you read what I write rather than making a bunch of assumptions based on nothing but strawmen you're creating in your head.

    NO WHERE have I said in ANY WAY that their "initial aggression" was "justified".

    I stated I understood the group being annoyed with the SUV.

    That's it.

    Call me crazy, but being ANNOYED at someone isn't [b]Aggression[b/]. The first act of "aggression" was the biker who got in front of him and then began to break causing an accident. You know what I said about that specifically in this thread?



    The second "act of aggression" that was clearly seen was them stopping traffic. What did I say about that SPECIFICALLY in the very first post I made in this thread?



    I then proceeded to call them all Assholes, and prior to that stated I have very little sympathy for them.

    The second post I made, which you quoted, was me trying to essentially give my take on how the events likely begun transpiring because we don't actually get to see that for the most part. The suggestion that the bikers were annoyed with the SUV not getting over was not an EXCUSE for the bikers nor in any way, shape, or form a statement that their actions were justified. Their actions ranged from highly reckless to outright felonious. It was simply trying to provide a hypothesis as to why they began making their aggressive actions to begin with.

    If a police officer suggests that a woman stabbed her husband because she was (wrongly) paranoid that he was cheating on her, are you suggesting the police officer is "justifying" the woman stabbing her husband? NO, it's attempting to explain the motivation for why she did what she did.

    If you want to believe the bikers just RANDOMLY decided to slam their breaks on in front of the guy, be my guest. Based on my previous experience and what I've seen on the videos, I HIGHLY doubt that's the case. I think they likely did it because they were annoyed at the SUV driver, and then proceeded to take that reasonable (imho) annoyance to completely unacceptable and unreasonable lengths with their wreckless and criminal behavior.

    But me stating I can understand them being ANNOYED is in no way, shape, or form justifying or excusing their AGGRESSION when I've REPEATEDLY stated that I disagree with and condemn their ACTIONS.
    I think initially surrounding the SUV was aggressive. Maybe you can't imagine bikers in a group trying to act like badasses in front of their friends and harassing someone and wanting a confrontation but I've seen it many times (not just with bikers). You said that the initial collision wasn't "all" the SUV drivers fault indicating that he is somewhat to blame (for his unreasonable insistence on driving in the center lane, I suppose). I just don't see it that way.

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    Re: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    His window was broken when he was caught (after he ran over and seriously injured a motorcylist).

    His flat tire could very well have occoured from running over those pointy motorcycles and Edwin Mieses.



    The drivers window is clearly being broken near the end of the video above.
    I think the SUV drivers actions were reasonable self defense. You aggressively surround someone, force them to stop and out number them a dozen (or however many) to one, it's reasonable of them to try to get out of that situation regardless of who's trying to keep them there. I don't carry a gun in my car, but the video makes me think maybe I should.
    Last edited by X Factor; 10-06-13 at 04:23 AM.

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    Re: Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him After Collision

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You don't have to remain at the scene of an acceding if you feel in danger, and multiple dozen bikers illegally stopping all traffic on a road and surrounding you is a reasonable reason to feel in danger REGARDLESS of any other action they did or did not take.
    So if you get in an accident and a crowd gathers(you sense danger),you have the right to run over other bystanders to make a getaway....just lovely.

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