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Sharp Words Over Shutdown When Lawmaker Visits WWII Memorial

davidtaylorjr said:
You aren't making any sense.....
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federal civil servants are subject to disciplinary action, including termination, if they fail to follow direct orders
the only exceptions to that are circumstances where the order is a violation of law, rule or regulation or where to follow that order would place the employee or another in immediate physical jeopardy

in short, the park ranger was being an obedient federal employee, following orders, as directed

please let me know if you continue to be unable to understand
 
clownboy said:
You're arguing with the wrong person - where did I say their actions were "legally unsound"? However, legal advice to "do what's reasonable" is worse than no advice at all.
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reasonable efforts to protect the federal park assets and to protect from unauthorized entry was my shorthand for the legal advice rendered
 
justabubba said:
they are reporting as directed. if deemed 'essential' they are also being paid
those who are not directed to report for duty and still work in their federal capacity are subject to a $5000 fine and potential termination of their position
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So, the park rangers securing the site in this instance are deemed essential in the legal sense? You know this how?
 
justabubba said:
reasonable efforts to protect the federal park assets and to protect from unauthorized entry was my shorthand for the legal advice rendered
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Once again, that leaves the park service twisting in the wind and is not specific legal advice. God I hate lawyers.
 
justabubba said:
federal civil servants are subject to disciplinary action, including termination, if they fail to follow direct orders
the only exceptions to that are circumstances where the order is a violation of law, rule or regulation or where to follow that order would place the employee or another in immediate physical jeopardy

in short, the park ranger was being an obedient federal employee, following orders, as directed

please let me know if you continue to be unable to understand
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Oh I understand, and there was no reason to shut down the monument. None whatsoever, it was a Democrat publicity stunt.
 
justabubba said:
reasonable efforts to protect the federal park assets and to protect from unauthorized entry was my shorthand for the legal advice rendered
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Unauthorized entry? It's open air, there is no reason to shut it down.
 
j-mac said:
Many of them have been through this before bubba, they know that when the 'shutdown' is over they will be granted back pay for all their time, so they know they really are not losing anything.
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i experienced those furloughs first hand
as a federal retiree who remains a union official, i have been advising employees about what they can and cannot do during furlough
during those conversations, the opinion appears to be that there is not an expectation of back pay for the time on furlough this time around
with federal government employees doing fine during these difficult economic times, it is widely believed they will not receive the monies they would have earned had they been allowed to do their jobs
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Oh I understand, and there was no reason to shut down the monument. None whatsoever, it was a Democrat publicity stunt.
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Absolutely, this is what they want, the more pain the better.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Oh I understand, and there was no reason to shut down the monument. None whatsoever, it was a Democrat publicity stunt.
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no. if the park rangers are mostly on furlough, then there is not sufficient staff to keep the facility operational
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Actually, Reid has been very clear about the fact that the Democrats would be willing to discuss compromise -- just not while the whole of the discretionary budget is held hostage.
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Compromise to Reid is "give me what I and the rest of the Senate wants or no deal"

That's how democrats view compromise....

Hell, as a staunch libertarian I wouldn't even talk to democrats if I held a seat in the House...

I would have absolutely no desire to play their hostage games.....

These ****clown democrats are actually relying on the media to portray the republicans responsible for this mess and they're attempting to use that nonsense as a bargaining chip....

Obamacare is so important to them because it gives socioeconomic control over to the federal government on every aspect from social ideas to economic ideas. The totalitarians in the Senate need Obamacare to continue their fascist totalitarian agenda.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Compromise to Reid is "give me what I and the rest of the Senate wants or no deal"
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No, Compromise to Reid is "stop using the discretionary spending as leverage and we'll talk."

Mr.Nick said:
That's how democrats view compromise....

Hell, as a staunch libertarian I wouldn't even talk to democrats if I held a seat in the House...

I would have absolutely no desire to play their hostage games.....

These ****clown democrats are actually relying on the media to portray the republicans responsible for this mess and they're attempting to use that nonsense as a bargaining chip....

Obamacare is so important to them because it gives socioeconomic control over to the federal government on every aspect from social ideas to economic ideas. The totalitarians in the Senate need Obamacare to continue their fascist totalitarian agenda.
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Everything you just said about the Democrats applies equally to the Republicans. Both sides have a hardon over the ACA, neither side is budging, both sides are pointing fingers.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Democrats are refusing to negotiate while Republicans refuse to fund the government, Republicans refuse to fund the government unless the ACA is delayed. That is the very definition of holding something hostage, and the very definition of two sides being equally unwilling to compromise.
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Wow, in what world does passing funding bills count as a refusal to fund the government? Seriously. You cannot argue that the Republicans are refusing to fund the government. At least not rationally.

Passing budgets, proposing four different CRs, proposing individual funding bills and passing them all = refusal to fund the government?

This is what Democrats are stooping to? Arguments like that?
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
No, Compromise to Reid is "stop using the discretionary spending as leverage and we'll talk."



Everything you just said about the Democrats applies equally to the Republicans. Both sides have a hardon over the ACA, neither side is budging, both sides are pointing fingers.
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Wow... Really? Neither side is budging? Wtf do you call moving from full repeal to full defund to delay? Seriously, Wtf do you call that if not budging from a previously held position?

My god, the lengths people will go to ignore reality is amazing...
 
davidtaylorjr said:
The WW2 Memorial doesn't need staff.....
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Exactly. It, along with numerous other monuments they're barricading are open air monuments. It's just petty, nasty vindictiveness that is actually squandering money to pay for the labor to erect the necessary barricades to keep people away from them. There is ZERO fiscal reason to erect the barricades and man them except to exercise their bullying natures.
 
justabubba said:
the federal parks are government assets which must be protected
they must also not impose a public hazard
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Ever been to those parks? And as you will note...the Park Police is NOT furloughed. they are on duty...locking people out.

The lockdown of monuments is nothing more than a petty act of a pathetic petty small minded 'leader'.

“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

Read more: PRUDEN: The cheap tricks of the game - Washington Times
 
JMak00 said:
Wow, in what world does passing funding bills count as a refusal to fund the government? Seriously. You cannot argue that the Republicans are refusing to fund the government. At least not rationally.
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You stopped reading just before the "unless." As in, "unless the ACA is delayed." Reading comprehension is your friend.

JMak00 said:
This is what Democrats are stooping to? Arguments like that?
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Not a Democrat.
 
JMak00 said:
Wow... Really? Neither side is budging? Wtf do you call moving from full repeal to full defund to delay? Seriously, Wtf do you call that if not budging from a previously held position?

My god, the lengths people will go to ignore reality is amazing...
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I don't recall the Republicans opening their side of this fiasco by demanding a full repeal in exchange for passage of discretionary funding.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
You stopped reading just before the "unless." As in, "unless the ACA is delayed." Reading comprehension is your friend.
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Do not be a weasel. The Republicans are not refusing to fund the govt. How done know this... They're not individual spending bills, you know, actual appropriations bills just as we did for 200+ years. And the Democrats refuse to even consider that.

So your qualifier of unless is meaningless because the Republicans are, in Fact, proposing to fund the government.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
No, Compromise to Reid is "stop using the discretionary spending as leverage and we'll talk."



Everything you just said about the Democrats applies equally to the Republicans. Both sides have a hardon over the ACA, neither side is budging, both sides are pointing fingers.
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Unlike democrats - republicans are NOT all in cohesion....

Yeah it may apply to the fascist authoritarian RINO' but there are plenty of is who are NOT democrats or progressives that are also not "RINO's" We're libertarians, classical liberals, Tea Party, real republicans, moderates etc...

Just because there is opposition to democrat philosophy or ideology doesn't mean we're all "republicans."

Quit acting like it's "either or" when it's not..... The media does it's best to portray two options of political philosophy when there are many...

If it matters I hate these big government authoritarian loving NeoCons who continue to side with the big government authoritarian progressive liberals in an attempt to "save the party and save face" with their alleged constituents and pals from the bottom to the top...

They're no better than the elitist rich corporate loving progressive liberal clowns in government like Pelosi, Kerry or Obama... They're all owned by someone and they're all doing others bidding in an attempt to keep their power and their power base.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I don't recall the Republicans opening their side of this fiasco by demanding a full repeal in exchange for passage of discretionary funding.
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How many times has the house introduced legislation to repeal the ACA? That was their starting point. When it came to passing a CR that became defund and then morphed to delay + repeal what Reid himself calls the "stupid" the tax and then to delay...
 
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