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Thread: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Does it even matter?

    We are so clearly headed to a complete implosion of the banking system and world market, it is merely a matter of a short amount of time.

    We're basically paying the debt with notebook paper. The "money" we pay debt with is completely worthless, straight off the printing press.
    LOL You are so wrong. We get the money to pay our bills from investors who flock to our T bills like bee's to honey. We don't need to print it, it gets handed to us. That's what happens when you have the safest & strongest currency in the world.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-08-13 at 06:31 PM.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Well, the government does have ONE option.....

    Declare bankruptcy and start over. But that would piss off too many banksters.
    Or we could just keep on like we have been. There is no reason to ever pay down the debt. We still have ours from WWII. You do know that Japan has twice the debt to GDP that we have and are not worried about paying it down either.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL You are so wrong. We get the money to pay our bills from investors who flock to our T bills like bee's to honey. We don't need to print it, it gets handed to us. That's what happens when you have the safest & strongest currency in the world.
    Nonsense.

    If it was that simple, why would we even bother discussing the national debt? Why even worry about it at all? Why not just sell 100 trillion T bills a day?

    There's a limit to fanagling numbers and printing money without anything real behind it. We've essentially already passed that limit. Now, it's just a matter of time until we have to lay down our pocket threes.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Either way, if Obama tries to lay claim to the 14th as grounds for raising the debt he will be breaking the law as it specifically states that it is Congress which will enforce the 14th. Not the executive branch.



    Apparently they didn't appropriate the money required of purchaseing those goods and services. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    Actually, they DID appropriate the money. That is why we are hitting the debt ceiling.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, they DID appropriate the money. That is why we are hitting the debt ceiling.
    No, thats not how it works. You appropriate the money that you can afford. Anything more than that and there are consequences. In this case hitting the debt ceiling. There is never any gauruntee that the debt ceiling will be raised. Everyone knows this. Its like borrowing too much from the bank. Eventually you are going to hit that ceiling and you could cost yourself your credit rating, your car, your house, everything. There are consequences to actions. Maybe our government will finally learn this simple fact.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No, thats not how it works. You appropriate the money that you can afford. Anything more than that and there are consequences. In this case hitting the debt ceiling. There is never any gauruntee that the debt ceiling will be raised. Everyone knows this. Its like borrowing too much from the bank. Eventually you are going to hit that ceiling and you could cost yourself your credit rating, your car, your house, everything. There are consequences to actions. Maybe our government will finally learn this simple fact.
    They did more than appropriate. Goods and services were purchased as a result of those appropriations, and pay for them on a payment schedule. The shutting down of government has to do with appropriations. The debt ceiling has to do with what we actually owe for the goods and services ALREADY PURCHASED, and is a far more serious matter. It's why we would be a deadbeat nation if we default.

    Here's an analogy. My wife and I complain about the kind of car we are going to get. We end up not getting a car because we can't agree. Sure, it's a hassle not having a car, but it's not going to kill us, and, of course, we don't owe money for a car because we didn't get one. However, if I tell my wife that, because she does not agree with me, I will not pay the mortgage on our home that we bought years go, or make payments on our credit card debt, then that is a very serious matter with very serious consequences.
    Last edited by danarhea; 10-08-13 at 08:34 PM.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    It's because raising the debt ceiling has zero to do with default. Ofailure loves to pass out the pain when he can't have his way. He would be required to pay our debts with the nearly $3 trillion of income and pass out the pain some where he doesn't want too. Tough.

    I would hope if he tried on his own he would be dragged out for a perp walk and given all the govt benefits befitting a felon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I've pondered the constitutionality of a debt ceiling in the first place. We're constitutionally barred from defaulting, but when spending is mandated by law and a borrowing limit exists, that leaves a situation in which default is necessary. Which is exactly what Congress has done, they've passed legislation throughout our nations history that has created this spending problem. You can't just stop paying for things your own laws say you're going to pay for.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL You are so wrong. We get the money to pay our bills from investors who flock to our T bills like bee's to honey. We don't need to print it, it gets handed to us. That's what happens when you have the safest & strongest currency in the world.
    LOL. Since the Fed started quantitative easing they are the ones getting most of that honey. In other words, the government is buying most of the government treasuries. A phony economic measure that will cause us much harm one day.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    They did more than appropriate. Goods and services were purchased as a result of those appropriations, and pay for them on a payment schedule. The shutting down of government has to do with appropriations. The debt ceiling has to do with what we actually owe for the goods and services ALREADY PURCHASED, and is a far more serious matter. It's why we would be a deadbeat nation if we default.
    Then maybe they should learn to live with in their means? Don't purchase things you cannot afford or you may hit a ceiling and hurt your head.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Here's an analogy. My wife and I complain about the kind of car we are going to get. We end up not getting a car because we can't agree. Sure, it's a hassle not having a car, but it's not going to kill us, and, of course, we don't owe money for a car because we didn't get one. However, if I tell my wife that, because she does not agree with me, I will not pay the mortgage on our home that we bought years go, or make payments on our credit card debt, then that is a very serious matter with very serious consequences.
    Not a valid analogy. Your analogy assumes that you haven't hit your ceiling yet. Refusing to pay when you can afford to pay is entirely different from not being able to pay because what you bought exceeded what you can afford.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    All these doomsday scenarios are getting out of pocket. No one is going to let us default on debt. No one is going to empty out the coffers. The worst, and it is a bad situation, but what will happen is, at worst a 20% across the board cut will take place on government operations. Knowing Obama and his way of doing things this will mean some areas which are traditionally GOP valued programs will receive 75% cuts while his pet projects will be scarcely affected if at all.

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