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Thread: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    Congress may not do something which is unconstitutional, which failing to honor the debt would be. It's an unusual situation, to be sure, but the President can plausibly claim that he's upholding the Constitution in the face of an illegal default by Congress. The Supreme Court is generally reluctant to rule on disputes between the other two branches unless they see a crystal clear verdict, preferring to see such questions settled through the political process.
    1: Failing to act is not unconstitutional. 2: There is nothing in the 14th which talks about honoring a debt. Just that the validity of the debt shall not be questioned. 3: It is not up to the President to determine what is and is not constitutional. That is left up to SCOTUS and somewhat the legislative branch (in the effect of trying to appeal a law the politicians feel is unconstitutional). 4: The Executive branch has NO power (real or imagined) of raising revenue or making new law or bill or anything else that is with in the legislatives power. There is a reason that it is called the "Executive" branch. Not the "Legislative" branch. The executive branch may only execute what the Legislative branch not only makes law on but also in how much money the Executive branch allows spending on. It is not the Legislatives job to spend the money, it is the Executives job. It was one of the checks that they put on the government to prevent one or the other from getting too much power.

    It should also be noted that the ONLY reason that part was added to the 14th Amendment was to settle some questions that had arisen due to the Civil War. It was never meant to be applied to anything beyond that.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    OK. You are checked for being wrong.
    Nice dodge.

    Again, whose making demands in this situation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Raising a debt ceiling for present payments implies the money was never there. Debt ceilings are for future expenditures. We don't have an FY14 budget. It's FY13 money that is keeping things going.
    Yeah. And promises to pay interest on debt, continue chemotherapy on patients, and pay hospitals and doctors on bills already incurred are considered future expenditures.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your thinking, as usual.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    There is absolutely NOTHING in the 14th Amendment that would allow the President to do such a thing.
    While we have no reason to doubt your crack legal opinion, I think I'll stick with real lawyers, including the Constitutional Law Professor in the White House.

    My prediction-

    I have no doubt that Obama will use the 14th, or the trillion dollar coin option, to avoid default. I can see the TP calling for impeachment, which could lead to the most ludicrous impeachment proceedings ever....where a President is accused of thwarting Economic terrorists. This will signal the end of the GOP.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    He wouldn't have to do anything if crazy conservatives weren't forcing him.
    That reminds me of an abusive husband telling his wife, "I wouldn't beat you if you weren't forcing me to..."


    If Obama attempts to raise the national debt without Congress, I would expect a quick and strong impeachment to proceed immediately. No President, for any reason should be allowed to usurp the Constitution. The lame excuse that there is some new interpretation of the 14th, section 4 is quickly stomped on by section 5.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That reminds me of an abusive husband telling his wife, "I wouldn't beat you if you weren't forcing me to..."


    If Obama attempts to raise the national debt without Congress, I would expect a quick and strong impeachment to proceed immediately. No President, for any reason should be allowed to usurp the Constitution. The lame excuse that there is some new interpretation of the 14th, section 4 is quickly stomped on by section 5.
    More Orwellian reversal of reality. The GOP is the husband with the gun saying "don't make me hurt you." Obama, if anything, is the wife running out of the house and calling the police.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by greengirl77 View Post
    Obama and the Dems were not making any demands of the Republicans. Check me if I am wrong but the Republicans were making the demands and basically saying if you don't do this we are shutting the government down how is it Obama's fault again or Dems? Hell America doesn't agree with how Republicans have acted, are they not the party of the people.
    You and 80% of the population agree. But the T's still won't budge because they don't care what the people want. They answer to another drummer. Their billionaire benefactors are calling the shots and the threat of all that money being used against them is keeping the rest of the party in line. It's a very bad situation directly caused by the Citizens United decision. The court really needs to reconsider their ruling before our democracy is bought and tossed away.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    More Orwellian reversal of reality. The GOP is the husband with the gun saying "don't make me hurt you." Obama, if anything, is the wife running out of the house and calling the police.
    Wrong - Obama's saying "Don't force me to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling" is what's going on.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    If the effects of a debt default would be so grievous to the economy, would Obama see it necessary to use his authority to raise the debt ceiling himself?

    And where would it go from there?
    i don't support this option, as it sets a dangerous precedent. however, if brinkmanship causes a default, we're in for a long, dark night.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    While we have no reason to doubt your crack legal opinion, I think I'll stick with real lawyers, including the Constitutional Law Professor in the White House.

    My prediction-

    I have no doubt that Obama will use the 14th, or the trillion dollar coin option, to avoid default. I can see the TP calling for impeachment, which could lead to the most ludicrous impeachment proceedings ever....where a President is accused of thwarting Economic terrorists. This will signal the end of the GOP.
    Oh yes, lets continue with the "Constitutional Law Professor in the White House"....isn't it the same one that claimed it was OK for Bush to waterboard terrorists? And no, impeachment would NOT be ludicrous. Obama has already ignored enough of the Constitution. I personally feel that he should have been impeach a long time ago. But frankly people are too scared to impeach the first black president. (and before you play the race card...I though he should have been impeached when he bombed Libya even after the limit that is placed in the Constitution and with out once having had Congressional approval, a VERY legitimate reason)

    The rest of your post is nothing more than hyperbole.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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