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Thread: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?
    No!

    Quote Originally Posted by Article 1, Section 7
    All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

    Annenberg Classroom - Article I Section 7
    Case closed.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/bu...n.html?hp&_r=0

    [I]If the debt ceiling is not raised by [Oct 17], the Treasury estimates it will be left with about only $30 billion in cash, which would be used up in a matter of days.
    I find this whole thing a little hard to buy into.

    If the government is spending less money now than before the partial shutdown, the kitty should hold up longer.

    If the government is spending less money now than before the partial shutdown and taxes are still flowing into the government, the kitty should hold up a lot longer.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/bu...n.html?hp&_r=0

    If the debt ceiling is not raised by [Oct 17], the Treasury estimates it will be left with about only $30 billion in cash, which would be used up in a matter of days.

    As a result, economists and investors have quietly begun to explore the options the White House might have in the event Congress fails to act.

    The most widely discussed strategy would be for President Obama to invoke authority under the 14th Amendment and essentially order the federal government to keep borrowing, an option that was endorsed by former President Bill Clinton during an earlier debt standoff in 2011.

    And in recent days, prominent Democrats like Senator Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, and Representative Nancy Pelosi, the House minority leader, have urged the White House to seriously consider such a route, even if it might provoke a threat of impeachment from House Republicans and ultimately require the Supreme Court to rule on its legitimacy.

    Other potential October surprises range from the logistically forbidding, like prioritizing payments, issuing i.o.u.’s or selling off gold and other assets, to more fanciful ideas, like minting a trillion-dollar platinum coin.


    The trillion dollar coin idea, reminiscent of Mr. Burns, is based on a law that says that the US can mint a coin of pure platinum in any denomination, essentially giving us $1T extra to use in case of a looming default.

    If the effects of a debt default would be so grievous to the economy, would Obama see it necessary to use his authority to raise the debt ceiling himself?

    And where would it go from there?
    Gee, why stop there. Why doesn't Obama have the mint strike a coin in the denomination of the amount that every foreign country holds - give China a $1.5 trillion coin and send them on their way - let them try to cash it at the local Bejing McDonalds - and you can then lop off about $5 to $6 trillion from the national debt and no more debt ceiling problems. Your currency might tank, but since when was that a concern of liberals.

    Obama raising the debt ceiling without congressional authorization would be just as crazy but far from impossible when liberals are in charge.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Gee, why stop there. Why doesn't Obama have the mint strike a coin in the denomination of the amount that every foreign country holds - give China a $1.5 trillion coin and send them on their way - let them try to cash it at the local Bejing McDonalds - and you can then lop off about $5 to $6 trillion from the national debt and no more debt ceiling problems. Your currency might tank, but since when was that a concern of liberals.

    Obama raising the debt ceiling without congressional authorization would be just as crazy but far from impossible when liberals are in charge.
    He wouldn't have to do anything if crazy conservatives weren't forcing him.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    The Baby Boomers weren't retiring in the 90s.

    As for the OP, I do think the President would be on firm ground invoking the 14th amendment. Regardless of what a mere statute says, the US may not default on debts.

    The US will NOT, and I repeat will NOT default on its debt. That's a talking point and is an outright lie to ill-informed people. All it means is that money targeted for something else will now be used to pay down debt. As an example, instead of 500 million to Solyndra, we pay our debt. Doesn't get more simple than that.


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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Remember the days of past when Obama condemned Bush's use of the Chinese credit card and called Bush unpatriotic for supporting an increase in the debt ceiling?

    The media seems to have forgotten, but that time existed. It occurred about the same time Obama was blasting Hillary's health insurance mandate.

    Obama is a pathological liar and hypocrite.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    The US will NOT, and I repeat will NOT default on its debt. That's a talking point and is an outright lie to ill-informed people. All it means is that money targeted for something else will now be used to pay down debt. As an example, instead of 500 million to Solyndra, we pay our debt. Doesn't get more simple than that.


    Tim-
    I've been saying the same thing.

    In wish the stupid party, ie, the GOP, would step and simply ask when Obama threatens us with the risk of default, "Mr. President, why would you choose not to service the National debt?" Put him on the spot...

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/bu...n.html?hp&_r=0

    If the debt ceiling is not raised by [Oct 17], the Treasury estimates it will be left with about only $30 billion in cash, which would be used up in a matter of days.

    As a result, economists and investors have quietly begun to explore the options the White House might have in the event Congress fails to act.

    The most widely discussed strategy would be for President Obama to invoke authority under the 14th Amendment and essentially order the federal government to keep borrowing, an option that was endorsed by former President Bill Clinton during an earlier debt standoff in 2011.

    And in recent days, prominent Democrats like Senator Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, and Representative Nancy Pelosi, the House minority leader, have urged the White House to seriously consider such a route, even if it might provoke a threat of impeachment from House Republicans and ultimately require the Supreme Court to rule on its legitimacy.

    Other potential October surprises range from the logistically forbidding, like prioritizing payments, issuing i.o.u.’s or selling off gold and other assets, to more fanciful ideas, like minting a trillion-dollar platinum coin.


    The trillion dollar coin idea, reminiscent of Mr. Burns, is based on a law that says that the US can mint a coin of pure platinum in any denomination, essentially giving us $1T extra to use in case of a looming default.

    If the effects of a debt default would be so grievous to the economy, would Obama see it necessary to use his authority to raise the debt ceiling himself?

    And where would it go from there?
    There is absolutely NOTHING in the 14th Amendment that would allow the President to do such a thing.

    Section 4 (which they are talking about) talks about DEBT, not the raising of money. Not to mention it specifically states in section 5 that "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.", NOT the President or executive office. I was against this when they wanted Clinton to do it. I am STILL against it now.
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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    He wouldn't have to do anything if crazy conservatives weren't forcing him.
    Poor baby - those crazy conservatives are ruining his travel plans and late season tee off times. Damn them!!!
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Can President Obama Unilaterally Raise the Debt Ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    There is absolutely NOTHING in the 14th Amendment that would allow the President to do such a thing.

    Section 4 (which they are talking about) talks about DEBT, not the raising of money. Not to mention it specifically states in section 5 that "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.", NOT the President or executive office. I was against this when they wanted Clinton to do it. I am STILL against it now.
    Congress may not do something which is unconstitutional, which failing to honor the debt would be. It's an unusual situation, to be sure, but the President can plausibly claim that he's upholding the Constitution in the face of an illegal default by Congress. The Supreme Court is generally reluctant to rule on disputes between the other two branches unless they see a crystal clear verdict, preferring to see such questions settled through the political process.

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