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Thread: Negotations start this evening.

  1. #101
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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    This is only slightly less stupid of a request. How well do you think insurance companies are going to do when forced to take people with pre-existing conditions and no mandate to push healthy people onto the rolls? That's your reasonable request from the GOP?
    Well, at least you admit that your original post was based entirely on false information....

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So because you think Obamacare will collapse one way, it's ok for the Republicans to deliberately accelerate it?
    It's the difference between knowing that the cancer will eventually die when the patient dies versus killing just the cancer.

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by shagg View Post
    All 3 decisions were made in accordance to written law and the constitutionality of those laws in the times they were made. Do I agree that the right decision was made in all 3 cases? No, as time has told, particularly in the case of Plessy vs. Ferguson. But, particularly in the case of Dred Scott because it makes the point obvious, they ruled on a particular situation according to existing laws. Under the laws of the times, SCOTUS had to rule that Scott remain a slave, because the law was clear that he had no right to sue for freedom under the courts. Morally right? Few today would argue that. But that's not their purpose, they can only rule on and interpret existing law, which they did.

    Do you feel that we shouldn't have a SCOTUS or legal equivalent? No matter how you set up the legal system, you will need a highest authority of some kind to rule on controversial and/or complicated legal matters. The SCOTUS exists by necessity. Unless you're willing to deny the need for a highest court in the land, you're just cherry picking. Or maybe we should just do away the SCOTUS and have those powers absorbed by mr. pres.
    You miss the point. My point is that a law established and approved by SCOTUS is not necessarily the right course for the country to follow, whether the law establishes slavery, segregation or Obamacare. Those who assert that Obamacare is now the law of the land and the rest of us should therefore just suck it up are merely demonstrating their intellectual immaturity.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    You miss the point. My point is that a law established and approved by SCOTUS is not necessarily the right course for the country to follow, whether the law establishes slavery, segregation or Obamacare. Those who assert that Obamacare is now the law of the land and the rest of us should therefore just suck it up are merely demonstrating their intellectual immaturity.
    And how was slavery abolished? Wasn't it the 13 Amendment? How was segregation abolished? Wasn't it the Civil Rights Act?

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    And how was slavery abolished? Wasn't it the 13 Amendment? How was segregation abolished? Wasn't it the Civil Rights Act?
    Correct. In both cases, courageous "radicals" stood up against the Democrat establishment and settled law approved by SCOTUS - just like the Tea Party is doing for ObamaCare. I would hope that a repeat of the Civil War will not be necessary this time.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Correct. In both cases, courageous "radicals" stood up against the Democrat establishment and settled law approved by SCOTUS - just like the Tea Party is doing for ObamaCare. I would hope that a repeat of the Civil War will not be necessary this time.
    IMO, there was nothing in the Constitution that even justified slavery - let alone their offspring being de facto slaves...

    As a libertarian I hold the Bill of Rights and constitution in high regard, yet many issues that were resolved via amendments never had to be because many were never the law of the land...

    The philosophy of the Constitution is extremely interesting, the Bill of Rights is about as blunt as a Dr. Seuss book...

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    You miss the point. My point is that a law established and approved by SCOTUS is not necessarily the right course for the country to follow, whether the law establishes slavery, segregation or Obamacare. Those who assert that Obamacare is now the law of the land and the rest of us should therefore just suck it up are merely demonstrating their intellectual immaturity.
    The Supreme Court defines tyranny.

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    And how was slavery abolished? Wasn't it the 13 Amendment? How was segregation abolished? Wasn't it the Civil Rights Act?
    Define segregation?

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    IMO, there was nothing in the Constitution that even justified slavery - let alone their offspring being de facto slaves...
    Agreed, but the legality of slavery was left up to the individual states and supported by the Dred Scott decision. It took a civil war to change the practice, which I hope will not be necessary to dispose of Obamacare. After the civil war segregation was left up to the states, supported by the Plessey v. Ferguson decision, and strongly promoted by the "progressive" wing of both Democrats and Republicans. In fact the original purpose of Planned Parenthood was to keep "our pure white society" from being overrun by black and brown babies. The elitist beliefs that justified slavery and segregation and eugenics are still with us, but the spinmeisters who promote these beliefs have become much more skilled at presenting their proposals to make the people dependent.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Negotations start this evening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Agreed, but the legality of slavery was left up to the individual states and supported by the Dred Scott decision. It took a civil war to change the practice, which I hope will not be necessary to dispose of Obamacare. After the civil war segregation was left up to the states, supported by the Plessey v. Ferguson decision, and strongly promoted by the "progressive" wing of both Democrats and Republicans. In fact the original purpose of Planned Parenthood was to keep "our pure white society" from being overrun by black and brown babies. The elitist beliefs that justified slavery and segregation and eugenics are still with us, but the spinmeisters who promote these beliefs have become much more skilled at presenting their proposals to make the people dependent.
    I understand your point but I have argued that the "Dread Scott" decision violated the Bill of Rights in the first place in several ways.

    One of the ideas that concerns me the most is that the offspring of "slaves" were de facto "free individuals" despite legally claimed as slaves......

    Forget the Tenth Amendment considering the other 9 Amendments trump the Tenth and considering no racial reference was ever made between Amendment's I-VIX.

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