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Thread: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va [W: 86,235]

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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    you have to understand, for some people, its only EQUAL RIGHTS if they say so or they like it, otherwise its not. Just like minority rights, womens rights and interracial marriage. All the same failed arguments.
    I do understand, but the thing that amazes me is the glaring obvious hole in the logic. If you promote inequality even for your own gain at some point those systems that are more powerful than you will use that same weakness against you. By promoting their unfairness you promote the weakness that will allow them to be unfair to you. It is sort of like how the patriot act came back around to bite republicans in the ass with spying. Yes, it is all great while you are in control, but when your opponents get a hold of it it will be used by them to bite you in the ass. Which is why fairness even though it may not allow you to be prejudiced against others is important because it will not allow others to be unfair against you. I just do not get why they cannot see that point despite a world full of instances where it is proven to happen 100 percent of the time. I would never dream of endorsing a ban on christianity, and I even want christianity to have it's own voice in the world for it's opwn promotion and not the denegration of others. I want it to be protected no matter how often it causes others harm. I want the actions that hurt others to be punished, but not the ideas because I know when you start judging those ideas and eliminating them it will eventually be used on ideas I agree with. Ther WBC is a bunch of assholes and I would not mind if they got run over by a truck by accident. however, i would never seek to ban their words or their ideas from the public's eye.

    Even on this issue, i think marriage is a huge sham. i do not believe in obne person forever, though i could see one person for a period of time. I thibnk marriage laws suck. I do not want to spend money on all the divorce drama. I hate that we have funded an area where lawyers swim freely in a pond of depraivity and immorality. But I have seen it help people and make them happy. I have seen the joy tghat comes from it even if it ends tragically later. I do not want to ban it even though it clearly destroys lives sometimes. I do not know why gays want it, and i think as more of them get married it will destroy more of their lives, but I am not going to stop them from getting married. I am actually glad they have those days of happiness even if it makes the fall harder. I hate church, but I am glad it is there for those people who live for it every week. How much of a scumbag would I be if I said no you cannot have church because that is my word. It does not mean I won't rant about it as that serves another purpose, but I do not expect those people to like me for ranting about it and i certainly would never vote to ban it from happening on church property every single sunday. I do not even mind the idea that some white supremists want to set up a white only town in the middle of nowhere where no one else lives. I do not think they should kick anyone else out, but if you want to live in white only land and syhut the door then do it, just when you come out be pleasant because the rest of the world is not that way. As long as most areas and no needed areas are public for everyone i am fine with private areas having private rules.

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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    I do understand, but the thing that amazes me is the glaring obvious hole in the logic. If you promote inequality even for your own gain at some point those systems that are more powerful than you will use that same weakness against you. By promoting their unfairness you promote the weakness that will allow them to be unfair to you. It is sort of like how the patriot act came back around to bite republicans in the ass with spying. Yes, it is all great while you are in control, but when your opponents get a hold of it it will be used by them to bite you in the ass. Which is why fairness even though it may not allow you to be prejudiced against others is important because it will not allow others to be unfair against you. I just do not get why they cannot see that point despite a world full of instances where it is proven to happen 100 percent of the time. I would never dream of endorsing a ban on christianity, and I even want christianity to have it's own voice in the world for it's opwn promotion and not the denegration of others. I want it to be protected no matter how often it causes others harm. I want the actions that hurt others to be punished, but not the ideas because I know when you start judging those ideas and eliminating them it will eventually be used on ideas I agree with. Ther WBC is a bunch of assholes and I would not mind if they got run over by a truck by accident. however, i would never seek to ban their words or their ideas from the public's eye.

    Even on this issue, i think marriage is a huge sham. i do not believe in obne person forever, though i could see one person for a period of time. I thibnk marriage laws suck. I do not want to spend money on all the divorce drama. I hate that we have funded an area where lawyers swim freely in a pond of depraivity and immorality. But I have seen it help people and make them happy. I have seen the joy tghat comes from it even if it ends tragically later. I do not want to ban it even though it clearly destroys lives sometimes. I do not know why gays want it, and i think as more of them get married it will destroy more of their lives, but I am not going to stop them from getting married. I am actually glad they have those days of happiness even if it makes the fall harder. I hate church, but I am glad it is there for those people who live for it every week. How much of a scumbag would I be if I said no you cannot have church because that is my word. It does not mean I won't rant about it as that serves another purpose, but I do not expect those people to like me for ranting about it and i certainly would never vote to ban it from happening on church property every single sunday. I do not even mind the idea that some white supremists want to set up a white only town in the middle of nowhere where no one else lives. I do not think they should kick anyone else out, but if you want to live in white only land and syhut the door then do it, just when you come out be pleasant because the rest of the world is not that way. As long as most areas and no needed areas are public for everyone i am fine with private areas having private rules.
    and there you have it, this is what some will never get . . . .
    but your words wil go ignored and be twisted and said but but but that different blah blah blah

    yet tomorrow just like yesterday reality agrees with you and not them
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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    and there you have it, this is what some will never get . . . .
    but your words wil go ignored and be twisted and said but but but that different blah blah blah

    yet tomorrow just like yesterday reality agrees with you and not them
    However, if we never fought against that stupidity we would never know how important that point of view is. Perhaps it is in understanding why our opponents are so opposed to it we discover the reasons why we fight so hard for it and how necessary it is to fight for it. Sorry, I found my shipment of enlightenment last sunday and I am probably going to be talking a bit wacky until i lose it again. It was totally hanging out on the back of my head and i had to see it for myself.

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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    However, if we never fought against that stupidity we would never know how important that point of view is. Perhaps it is in understanding why our opponents are so opposed to it we discover the reasons why we fight so hard for it and how necessary it is to fight for it. Sorry, I found my shipment of enlightenment last sunday and I am probably going to be talking a bit wacky until i lose it again. It was totally hanging out on the back of my head and i had to see it for myself.
    well this is true, when presented with the pure stupidity of the stances against equality it is easy to get motivated and fight for equality. When i read some of the vile, horrific, hateful, bigoted, visceral and mentally void rantings against gays its hurt not to get motivated for equality.

    Here i am enjoying my equality and some are being denied what Im enjoying myself, not only is that not right but to hear people celebrate this discrimination and to push for it makes me realize how nutty some people are and i have to fight for equality that same i have. I could never deny it to others.
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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    There may also be some cases that do pass because of pro-gay activist judges as well that are so deranged in their hateful stance on "equality" that they would reverse the legal will of the people and impose their own inappropriate view of marriage upon a state using their status as a judge to unfairly impose their will upon the people.
    You don't have the right to create sub-classes of Americans who don't have the same rights as everyone else. You can't say, "____________ don't have the right to ___________." Whether it's "blacks" and "read" or "women" and "vote" or "jews" and "own property" or "gays" and "get married". In a civilization where all citizens have equal protection of the law, then the only thing that is allowed in that first blank is "everyone". So if you want to ban marriage, it can't be, "____gays___ don't have the right to ___get married___," it has to be, "____ All Americans___ don't have the right to ___get married."

    You can't make a law that only restricts one special class. That's the basic elitism that is always the driving force behind right-wing politics. "We're more special than them and so we should ahve special rights." You guys thing that your right to get married is more special than anyone else's right to get married, when it's not. You can't have special rights that you deny to others. Either all of us ahve the right or none of us have the right. Anything else is the road to fascism that right-wing politics always take, sooner or later.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Just saying, there are some on the pro-SSM side that are literally deranged in their thinking, toss out grand judgments about their opposition and would violate the rights of states and voters to push their view of "equality" upon everyone. What I think is telling is when people think those who disagree shouldn't be allowed to have a vote or legal voice, especially considering that traditional marriage is the legal default and has been for hundreds of years with the issue of SSM being a change in policy instead of some new epiphany on "equality" that needs legal action with laws as written today.

    SSM is not like interacial marriage, that's a very very weak straw-man and slander tactic that is constantly tossed aorund in these threads. Let me know when sexuality is specifically mentioned in the Constitution as protected like race is (and don't try and use the fallacy that it's illegal gender discrimination to ban SSM). It's special interests that largely push these bans and violate the established law and default law of traditional marriage. I would say what Russia is doing is far more similar to what many on the pro-SSM side wants with using the government to chip away the rights and laws of dissenting individuals when they essentially argue that people have no right to vote on their views regarding marriage and that now, given some kind of social epiphany, SSM must be a default rule of law without a Constitutional amendment when traditional marriage has been default and legal for hundreds of years.
    There is no right of any state to discriminate against its citizens, gay or straight, unless they can show a legitimate state interest being furthered in doing so, no matter what laws it is that are discriminatory.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is no right of any state to discriminate against its citizens, gay or straight, unless they can show a legitimate state interest being furthered in doing so, no matter what laws it is that are discriminatory.
    exactly, if this wasnt the case all the discrimination in the past would still be around.
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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Just saying, there are some on the pro-SSM side that are literally deranged in their thinking
    Understatement of the century

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is no right of any state to discriminate against its citizens, gay or straight, unless they can show a legitimate state interest being furthered in doing so, no matter what laws it is that are discriminatory.
    So the state shouldn't discriminate against any sexual fetishes right?

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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Understatement of the century



    So the state shouldn't discriminate against any sexual fetishes right?
    since when did homosexuality become a "sexual fetish"

    your post fails as usual
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    Re: Gay rights organization files federal lawsuit challenging W.Va

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    SSM is not like interacial marriage, that's a very very weak straw-man and slander tactic that is constantly tossed aorund in these threads. Let me know when sexuality is specifically mentioned in the Constitution as protected like race is (and don't try and use the fallacy that it's illegal gender discrimination to ban SSM). It's special interests that largely push these bans and violate the established law and default law of traditional marriage. I would say what Russia is doing is far more similar to what many on the pro-SSM side wants with using the government to chip away the rights and laws of dissenting individuals when they essentially argue that people have no right to vote on their views regarding marriage and that now, given some kind of social epiphany, SSM must be a default rule of law without a Constitutional amendment when traditional marriage has been default and legal for hundreds of years.
    Lol, you need to stop being so dishonest with yourself. Russia is BANNING people from openly practicing their sexuality. It's banning the mere mention of sexuality. So to compare it to people who want their sexuality to be LEGALLY accepted, not RELIGIOUSLY accepted is utter ****ing nonsense. Nobody has asked for churches to recognize gay marriage. Nobody has asked Christians to stop believing homosexuality is a sin. What has been asked is that marriages between gays be LEGALLY recognized. Again, entirely different from that nonsensical straw-man you came up with.

    I gotta say though, you have outdone yourself. This is definitely worse then the time you tried to tell the forum you're not a fundamentalist Christian hiding behind a weak understanding of the UN charter of rights to defend an anti-abortion stance that is actually religious in nature. Seriously. Comparing the government oppressing homosexuality itself to wanting the government to simply recognize gay unions? Talk about a ****ing leap of faith.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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