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Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

disneydude said:
Actually....no....what I do...is when I see you and a number of other Republican apologists engaging in the same talking point in the same day....I google the talking point to see where it came from. 9 times out of 10 it was part of Limbaugh's program the day before....see.....that is how the internet does in your claims of not getting your talking points from the right-wing propogandists. A Good example....just recently Limbaugh was talking of "low information voters"....the next day....you must have used that term 10 times in your posts.....so in other words Con....you aren't fooling anyone.
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I see so in your world people are incapable of having exactly the same position on issues? Hate to break it to you but I don't listen to Rush and Hannity but I am a conservative and everything I promote are conservative ideals. It really is too bad you have no principles at all. Not sure what your utopia is but you live in the most debt ridden state in the nation with the highest taxes, and the most people making minimum wage. I suggest you focus on the problems of your state rather than try to discuss issues you don't understand. The term low information voter wasn't patented by Limbaugh but does represent people like you.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
the analogy of having a vehicle limited to showrooms or on a private property is just fringe exceptions to the rule, it is ignoring the essence of the argument. If you want to deal in absolutes, try religion or other irrational argument.
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Whether they are fringe or not the fact remains that they ARE exceptions and it is true. Like it or not people do not have to HAVE car insurance. With Obama's mandate you HAVE to have health insurance simply for living. Those are facts that you cannot get around no matter how much you try to minimilize it.

Gimmesometruth said:
I'm sorry but mandate is an enforced term of art, if you want to make the argument that the plan created by GOP "idiots" did not specifically spell out the enforcement provisions, that is entirely up to you and is just further intellectual dishonesty.
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Enforced term of art? Might want to expand on that.

Gimmesometruth said:
Again, his plans are attacked by fringe elements because he is black....and no one forced you to continue to protest against this fact so much.....me thinks.
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No, his plans in regards to the mandate was attacked by 60%+ of the American population. Remember, the majority of Americans did NOT want the mandate. That included quite a few democrats btw. Unless you are contending that 60% of Americans are "fringe" then you are simply just plain wrong.

Gimmesometruth said:
Some of my best friends are black too......me thinks.
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Good for you? At least I have proof of my defense of him. Just search the forum.

Gimmesometruth said:
I know, you have made clear your objecting to mandated financial responsibility....whether it comes from the left or right.

Next up, "we have a right to be financially irresponsible".
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Oh please. :roll: If you truly wanted people held financially responsible then you would get rid of bankruptcy laws and hold them to paying their bills and not allow them to ignore them. There's a reason that garnishment laws exist. Use it. Debt collectors sure do. THAT is holding them responsible. All Obamacare does is make it to where the burden of the cost is spread across society and not the individual, where it belongs.

Also in case you hadn't noticed it, our government rewards financially irresponsible people. Social security, medicaid, medicare, foodstamps, disability are all given to people that shouldn't be on those programs since those programs were meant to only help those that actually needed it. Not those that were lazy bums.
 
Anthony60 said:
It's funny that this guy gets stepped on by the rest of the world, but when it comes to the American people, he is going to stand his ground and not give in.

We have this government program that tens of millions of Americans don't want, could not get one republican vote, and couldn't even come close to being passed into law today. Yet, he immediately comes out and says he refuses to negotiate anything on it. Truly a man of the people! What people, I have no idea.
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I'm still trying to get my sanity back after the whole catholic birth control fiasco too. Such a joke of an administration. Were going to have to rewrite that song. I'm proud to an Obamabot where at least my **** is free! Pant****ter nation is what we have become...
 
Kal'Stang said:
Whether they are fringe or not the fact remains that they ARE exceptions and it is true.
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They are fringe exceptions, I never argued they were false, but they in no way change the essence of the ANALOGY.
Like it or not people do not have to HAVE car insurance. With Obama's mandate you HAVE to have health insurance simply for living. Those are facts that you cannot get around no matter how much you try to minimilize it.
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Again....THAT IS MY ARGUMENT. FFS, why would I avoid it?

Good grief.



Enforced term of art? Might want to expand on that. No, his plans in regards to the mandate was attacked by 60%+ of the American population. Remember, the majority of Americans did NOT want the mandate. That included quite a few democrats btw. Unless you are contending that 60% of Americans are "fringe" then you are simply just plain wrong.
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What frigging straw, stop with the "you are saying 60% of Americans are "fringe". Nothing more that more intellectual dishonesty.



Good for you? At least I have proof of my defense of him. Just search the forum.
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LOL...the sarcasm went right by you. I was saying YOU were using the "My best friends are black" argument.

Sigh.



Oh please. :roll: If you truly wanted people held financially responsible then you would get rid of bankruptcy laws and .....
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Bait to tangent? Sorry, no sale.

Also in case you hadn't noticed it, our government rewards financially irresponsible people. Social security, medicaid, medicare, foodstamps, disability are all given to people that shouldn't be on those programs since those programs were meant to only help those that actually needed it. Not those that were lazy bums.
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Yes yes, children, the disabled, pensioners (who paid during their working life into SS) have been "irresponsible".

FFS, this conservative/libertarian crap argument technique of conflating "welfare" with the individual mandate is just beyond belief. It never ceases to amaze me how many rabbit holes will be jumped into to avoid the topic.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
They are fringe exceptions, I never argued they were false, but they in no way change the essence of the ANALOGY.Again....THAT IS MY ARGUMENT. FFS, why would I avoid it?

Good grief.
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The fact that there is exceptions shows the major difference between the two. An analogy must be on equal footing for it to apply correctly. Otherwise its nothing more than a piss poor arguement.

Gimmesometruth said:
What frigging straw, stop with the "you are saying 60% of Americans are "fringe". Nothing more that more intellectual dishonesty.
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You're the one that stated that those that attack obama are the fringe. Obviously you were wrong. Own up to it.

Gimmesometruth said:
LOL...the sarcasm went right by you. I was saying YOU were using the "My best friends are black" argument.
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Sarcasm doesn't show through on the net...didn't you know that? And if that is all that you got from it then you did not actually read what I wrote. I was giving you an example of someone that does indeed attack Obama that doesn't give two craps about his skin color.

Gimmesometruth said:
Bait to tangent? Sorry, no sale.
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Not surprised when confronted with truth.

Gimmesometruth said:
Yes yes, children, the disabled, pensioners (who paid during their working life into SS) have been "irresponsible".

FFS, this conservative/libertarian crap argument technique of conflating "welfare" with the individual mandate is just beyond belief. It never ceases to amaze me how many rabbit holes will be jumped into to avoid the topic.
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You apparently missed the part where I stated "those programs were meant to only help those that actually needed it". But then again I'm not surprised with all the spin your post did. Spinning makes everyone that does it dizzy.
 
Obama needs to hold firm.

The House needs to fund all discretionary spending. No games. No tricks. No bull**** about ObamaCare.

If they want to kill ObamaCare or halt it for a year, they can pass a bill once the government is funded.

The House needs to stop playing games.
 
Sietske22 said:
Obama needs to hold firm.

The House needs to fund all discretionary spending. No games. No tricks. No bull**** about ObamaCare.

If they want to kill ObamaCare or halt it for a year, they can pass a bill once the government is funded.

The House needs to stop playing games.
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Right, Obama is the only one allowed to play games, right? He is allowed to make changes in the law to suit him and the Representatives of the people aren't? Is that liberal logic if there is such a thing? Why is Obama entitled to give exemptions for this incredible law that so many are touting and not allow the Republicans to ask for the removal of those exemptions? The only compromise ever with a liberal is giving them whatever they want and that isn't the way compromise works.
 
Conservative said:
Right, Obama is the only one allowed to play games, right? He is allowed to make changes in the law to suit him and the Representatives of the people aren't? Is that liberal logic if there is such a thing? Why is Obama entitled to give exemptions for this incredible law that so many are touting and not allow the Republicans to ask for the removal of those exemptions? The only compromise ever with a liberal is giving them whatever they want and that isn't the way compromise works.
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If the House has some intelligent and meaningful reasons as to why the Individual Mandate should be delayed for a year I welcome them to present these reasons to Obama and the Senate.
 
Sietske22 said:
If the House has some intelligent and meaningful reasons as to why the Individual Mandate should be delayed for a year I welcome them to present these reasons to Obama and the Senate.
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So Obama is the only person allowed to make changes to the law passed by Congress? Negotiations are only ok for Obama to give exemptions to campaign supporters and other pro Obama entities? You don't have a problem with that? Hard to present them to Obama and Harry Reid neither of who will listen. You put so much faith in Obama and Reid and the question is why? What have they done that they promised to do? Name for me just one Obama prediction and projection that has been proven accurate?
 
Conservative said:
So Obama is the only person allowed to make changes to the law passed by Congress? Negotiations are only ok for Obama to give exemptions to campaign supporters and other pro Obama entities? You don't have a problem with that? Hard to present them to Obama and Harry Reid neither of who will listen. You put so much faith in Obama and Reid and the question is why? What have they done that they promised to do? Name for me just one Obama prediction and projection that has been proven accurate?
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Well you see, The President of the United States has certain discretionary authority when it comes to his enforcement of goverment programs.

He can prioritize or deprioritize them.

Congress on the other hand has to pass a bill if they want to kill a program, defund it, weaken it, kill it, etc.
 
Sietske22 said:
Well you see, The President of the United States has certain discretionary authority when it comes to his enforcement of goverment programs.

He can prioritize or deprioritize them.

Congress on the other hand has to pass a bill if they want to kill a program, defund it, weaken it, kill it, etc.
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Right, defunding is what the Republicans are doing which is the will of the people who sent them to Congress and gave them control of the House. You see, it is the Democrats that shut down the govt. because funding bills begin in the House, the House sent a funding bill to the Senate and the Senate rejected it refusing to negotiate. Liberals all over the country don't understand how funding bills are created and passed. Republicans are asking for the elimination of all exemptions as their bottom line so tell me why would you support exemptions from such a liberal claimed wonderful bill?
 
Conservative said:
Right, defunding is what the Republicans are doing which is the will of the people who sent them to Congress and gave them control of the House. You see, it is the Democrats that shut down the govt. because funding bills begin in the House, the House sent a funding bill to the Senate and the Senate rejected it refusing to negotiate. Liberals all over the country don't understand how funding bills are created and passed. Republicans are asking for the elimination of all exemptions as their bottom line so tell me why would you support exemptions from such a liberal claimed wonderful bill?
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The Senate also represents the will of the People.

As does the choice of President.

The 2012 Election was a referendum on ObamaCare, and ObamaCare won.
 
But if you call it ACA it is even more popular.
Imagine if the parents of ACA, HeritageCare, were helping instead of sabotaging.
Yet you can say that across the economic board.
How many private sector jobs created last month?
How many straight months of private sector job growth since the end of the ----recession?
 
Sietske22 said:
Well you see, The President of the United States has certain discretionary authority when it comes to his enforcement of goverment programs.

He can prioritize or deprioritize them.

Congress on the other hand has to pass a bill if they want to kill a program, defund it, weaken it, kill it, etc.
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One of the checks and balances against an out of control president is that Congress has the power of the purse strings. They can decide to not fund anything they want.
 
Sietske22 said:
If the House has some intelligent and meaningful reasons as to why the Individual Mandate should be delayed for a year I welcome them to present these reasons to Obama and the Senate.
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Ask Obama

He's the one who exempted his political cronies and corporate pals from the mandate

Illegally I might add

Sietske22 said:
The Senate also represents the will of the People.

As does the choice of President.

The 2012 Election was a referendum on ObamaCare, and ObamaCare won.
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Bull

The law was purposely delayed until after the election and it was the last thing Obama wanted to talk about during the election. The only thing the Obots wanted to talk about during the election was Romney killed some guy's wife and binders filled with women.
 
Anthony60 said:
One of the checks and balances against an out of control president is that Congress has the power of the purse strings. They can decide to not fund anything they want.
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Yes, and both houses of Congress must agree.
 
Sietske22 said:
The Senate also represents the will of the People.

As does the choice of President.

The 2012 Election was a referendum on ObamaCare, and ObamaCare won.
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See if you can figure out why the House is called the People's House and I am sure that if you thought hard enough you will realize why the Senate is controlled by Democrats.
 
NIMBY said:
But if you call it ACA it is even more popular.
Imagine if the parents of ACA, HeritageCare, were helping instead of sabotaging.
Yet you can say that across the economic board.
How many private sector jobs created last month?
How many straight months of private sector job growth since the end of the ----recession?
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Great isn't it, all those months of part time private sector job growth and we are still down two million workers from when the recession began. That is a success story to a liberal not the 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers who aren't paying much in Federal taxes thanks to Obamanomics.
 
Anthony60 said:
Really? That's new one. Actually, they don't have to agree at all. As you can see, they don't agree right now and many parts of the government are not funded.
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No bill becomes a law until the Senate and the House agree to approve it.

American Civics 101.
 
Conservative said:
See if you can figure out why the House is called the People's House and I am sure that if you thought hard enough you will realize why the Senate is controlled by Democrats.
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Never heard of gerrymandering Congressional districts huh?
 
Sietske22 said:
No bill becomes a law until the Senate and the House agree to approve it.

American Civics 101.
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Yes, true. Except that is a different situation. As I stated before, things can be defunded without passing a bill. Or did you not notice the government shutdown?
 
Sietske22 said:
Never heard of gerrymandering Congressional districts huh?
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Yes, sure have, happened many times with Democrats in charge. It took the Republicans 40 years to win back the House which they did in 1994 so don't talk to me about Gerrymandering
 
Sietske22 said:
Obama needs to hold firm.

The House needs to fund all discretionary spending. No games. No tricks. No bull**** about ObamaCare.

If they want to kill ObamaCare or halt it for a year, they can pass a bill once the government is funded.

The House needs to stop playing games.
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Why should the House stop this? The Senate turned to reconciliation to pass Obamadon'tcare when they didn't have the votes for it to pass. Turn about is fair play. A budget bill is a budget bill for both parties.
 
Sietske22 said:
Never heard of gerrymandering Congressional districts huh?
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Happens in every state and always has. BTW, how is it that such a practice occurs? That's right, the political party that controls the state government usually gets to draw the lines. Happens in those states controlled by the Dems too.
 
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