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Thread: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL...YOU moved the conversation along by ignoring the documentation on how the individual mandate WAS a conservative/Heritage/Gingrich/Romney concept AND implemented policy......and then characterized it as "totalitarian".

    Now your argument is that mandated financial responsibility for auto insurance "is not the same" as the core concept in the PPACA.....without being able to bring yourself to explain how in a fundamental way it is not.

    Don't start whining about "dishonesty", the hypocrisy of such a comment is really obvious.
    I'll give you two...Not that you'll pay attention, or address them honestly or anything....

    1. State mandated liability auto insurance is there to protect the (now pay attention) other driver! It is not there to protect your own bad driving skills.

    2. You don't pay a fine if you own a car, and don't drive it, have it plated, or in that case don't have to carry insurance on that car....Obamacare, is exactly the opposite, you must pay for the mere fact of existing.
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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I'll give you two...Not that you'll pay attention, or address them honestly or anything....

    1. State mandated liability auto insurance is there to protect the (now pay attention) other driver! It is not there to protect your own bad driving skills.
    It is there to FINANCIALLY protect yourself when fortune does not smile on you.
    If fate does not smile on your health, you are protected FINANCIALLY.

    2. You don't pay a fine if you own a car, and don't drive it, have it plated, or in that case don't have to carry insurance on that car....Obamacare, is exactly the opposite, you must pay for the mere fact of existing.
    You don't have to pay if you don't have a car, you don't have to pay if you don't have a body.

    Now since you again ignored the fact that this was a concept pushed by cons (I suppose they were totalitarians) I am going to take this as a concession on your part.
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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    What have they given in on? They gave in on the defunding. Plain and simple.

    What have the Democrats given in on? Nothing. They pouted because they didnt get every thing they wanted so they took their ball and went home and are crying about it to the media (their mommy and their defender).

    Talk about a bunch of little children.
    They gave in on the defunding? Demanding one thing and then demanding less is not compromise. Its like a spoiled child demanding 10 cookies, and then demanding 2 when their parent says no.

    All you've done is described what the Republicans are demanding. The question is what are they willing to give up. What is their leverage?

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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by penn1954 View Post
    Hopefully they'll shut er down !!!!!
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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    It is there to FINANCIALLY protect yourself when fortune does not smile on you. If fate does not smile on your health, you are protected FINANCIALLY.
    You clearly do not understand auto insurance....please educate yourself, and we can continue.

    You don't have to pay if you don't have a car, you don't have to pay if you don't have a body.
    No, you can have a car, hell, you can have as many cars as your little, cold heart desires....If they aren't plated, and on the road, you don't have to insure them....

    Now since you again ignored the fact that this was a concept pushed by cons (I suppose they were totalitarians) I am going to take this as a concession on your part.
    I posted this before, but I will again for your edification....Please read it this time...

    Nevertheless, the myth persists. ObamaCare "adopts the 'individual mandate' concept from the conservative Heritage Foundation," Jonathan Alter wrote recently in The Washington Post. MSNBC's Chris Matthews makes the same claim, asserting that Republican support of a mandate "has its roots in a proposal by the conservative Heritage Foundation." Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi and others have made similar claims.

    The confusion arises from the fact that 20 years ago, I held the view that as a technical matter, some form of requirement to purchase insurance was needed in a near-universal insurance market to avoid massive instability through "adverse selection" (insurers avoiding bad risks and healthy people declining coverage). At that time, President Clinton was proposing a universal health care plan, and Heritage and I devised a viable alternative.

    My view was shared at the time by many conservative experts, including American Enterprise Institute (AEI) scholars, as well as most non-conservative analysts. Even libertarian-conservative icon Milton Friedman, in a 1991 Wall Street Journal article, advocated replacing Medicare and Medicaid "with a requirement that every U.S. family unit have a major medical insurance policy."

    My idea was hardly new. Heritage did not invent the individual mandate.

    But the version of the health insurance mandate Heritage and I supported in the 1990s had three critical features. First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others. Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on "catastrophic" costs — so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.

    Second, we sought to induce people to buy coverage primarily through the carrot of a generous health credit or voucher, financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.

    And third, in the legislation we helped craft that ultimately became a preferred alternative to ClintonCare, the "mandate" was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.

    Don't blame Heritage for ObamaCare mandate
    Now, do you see what is different between the two? It is glaring.....
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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The President shutdown the govt. because of his desire not to negotiate on any part of the bill. He gives exemptions to his friends and campaign contributors but then won't negotiate exemptions for the average American and even the bill that the Democrats created that exempts Congress.
    LOL.....nice attempt at spin...but sorry Conservative....the American people aren't buying it. BTW....there is nothing to negotiate. The ACA passed Congress and was signed into law.....it was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States. The teabaggers who have the Republican party by the balls are attempting to do the same thing to America...but unfortunately for them, America isn't going to wimp out the way that the GOP has to the teabaggers. America sees the GOP for what it has become....a complete and utter joke.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL.....nice attempt at spin...but sorry Conservative....the American people aren't buying it. BTW....there is nothing to negotiate. The ACA passed Congress and was signed into law.....it was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States. The teabaggers who have the Republican party by the balls are attempting to do the same thing to America...but unfortunately for them, America isn't going to wimp out the way that the GOP has to the teabaggers. America sees the GOP for what it has become....a complete and utter joke.
    imo, I blame both Houses and the President. I am an American, and I am not buying what Reid is saying. Seems Reid is the one holding things up. Won't conference with the House.

    All the players need to pass a spending bill and then get back to working out the issues.

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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    imo, I blame both Houses and the President. I am an American, and I am not buying what Reid is saying. Seems Reid is the one holding things up. Won't conference with the House.

    All the players need to pass a spending bill and then get back to working out the issues.
    Good for you. Americans as a whole, however, are rejecting the tea party games. They see this for what it is....the teabaggers holding America hostage to try to "negotiate" something that there is nothing to negotiate about....the same way that terrorists take hostages to try to force negotiations where no negotiations are warranted. We as Americans refuse to negotiate by and large with terrorists because we refuse to give into their games. That is why the American people are siding against the GOP and the teabaggers in large numbers on this one.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  9. #169
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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL...YOU moved the conversation along by ignoring the documentation on how the individual mandate WAS a conservative/Heritage/Gingrich/Romney concept AND implemented policy......and then characterized it as "totalitarian".

    Now your argument is that mandated financial responsibility for auto insurance "is not the same" as the core concept in the PPACA.....without being able to bring yourself to explain how in a fundamental way it is not.

    Don't start whining about "dishonesty", the hypocrisy of such a comment is really obvious.
    I'm jumping in here but I did want to address this.

    1: There is a huge difference between car mandated insurance and healthcare mandated insurance. You don't HAVE to have car insurance. Even if you own a car you do not HAVE to have car insurance. So long as you do not drive it on public roads. You can drive your car all you want on your own private property without any type of car insurance. You don't even need a drivers license to do that. Healthcare mandated insurance on the other hand is mandated to have no matter what. There is no way to opt out of it without being fined at the very least. You either get it, or else. That is a huge difference. The whole car/heal care insurance analogy is a false analogy that has never panned out...even when Obama touted it.

    2: Just because republicans once over a decade ago wanted the same thing does not mean that they have to accept it now. It was shot down before, it should have been shot down this time also. But if you really want to play the game of hypocrisy then how does it look that at one point democrats helped shoot it down the last time (due to the American people not wanting it) and this time it was so gung ho for it that they completely ignored the majority of the American People in order to enact it this time around? Funny how that is never mentioned huh?
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    Re: Obama Address the Nation on the government shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Good for you. Americans as a whole, however, are rejecting the tea party games. They see this for what it is....the teabaggers holding America hostage to try to "negotiate" something that there is nothing to negotiate about....the same way that terrorists take hostages to try to force negotiations where no negotiations are warranted. We as Americans refuse to negotiate by and large with terrorists because we refuse to give into their games. That is why the American people are siding against the GOP and the teabaggers in large numbers on this one.
    Umm...you have a warped definition of "terrorist" if you are equating the government shut down and tea baggers as being terroristic.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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