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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

The most interesting thing to me about the last two weeks is that it really all may be pointless, but not for the reasons everyone thinks.

Consider this: At the witching hour before Healthcare.gov went live the Republicans in Congress had narrowed their demands down to two: 1) Delay the individual Mandate for a year and 2) Eliminate the congressional subsidy that no other American could qualify for.

Democrats refused to budge on their end and the shutdown happened.

Then came October 1st and the exchanges opened. These exchanges are there to connect people with health insurers so that they can sign up for insurance and avoid the tax penalty they will begin incurring on January 1st.

.. except, very few people have actually successfully signed up for insurance. 51,000 by one leaked count, and the general consensus is that Healthcare.gov is a disaster.

This is important because with Healthcare.gov in such a sorry state of dysfunction the government would be hard pressed to prosecute anyone who didn't obtain health insurance by the March deadline -- and if they can't sort out the Healthcare.gov technical issues in the next month the prognosis keeps getting worse -- it could end up that the the Federal Government will need to POSTPONE THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE until they get their act in gear because it will be unenforceable given the state of the signup system.

So in the long run the Democrats will have refused to grant the House their request of postponing the mandate a year only to have to postpone the mandate a year.

The most interesting thing is what would have happened had the Tea Party gone alone with the deal Boehner and Reid struck in July (a clean CR at 983 Billion).

Fresh from a beating on Syria, the media would have spent the last two weeks covering the disastrous ACA rollout. Republicans could have held hearings highlighting the problem followed by a bill delaying the mandate for a year. Obama and the Democrats would have taken a huge hit fighting such a "reasonable" proposal.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

What I find odd is that all the anti ACA types keep trumpeting how few people have signed up. From what it sounds like, the amount of interest has been massive. The number of sign ups seems to be not announced anywhere except for 'leaks' which are pretty sketchy.

But why would anyone expect sign ups to be really big? No one needs to get this before Jan 1, and health insurance is quite complicated - people will be weighing their options and reading and figuring what the best thing to do is for quite a while before committing to a purchase, especially when they dont have a deadline for months.

I can guarantee when the actual numbers turn out to be good, the shouty Cons will pretend they never used the argument that no one was signing up. It will magically disappear from their brains.


The Fed is trumpeting page hits which says nothing about unique customer interactions.

50,000 people try 20 times to reload a page and boom, a million page hits.

How many accounts created? How many insurance plans purchased? Those are the metrics that would indicate a successful roll out and those are the numbers the administration won't divulge.

In general when you build a portal like this that is meant to channel customers into a specific action you get a thumbnail sketch of how successful the site is by the number of page hits per completed task. So if, say, you have 7 pages to navigate before a customer has completed the task then the perfect system would have a ratio of customer page hits to tasks completed of 7-1. If your stats show that every customer that completed the task had 20 page hits then you know there is likely something wrong along the path.

So far that ratio of known completed healthcare.gov applications to page hits strongly indicates that the system sits on the broke meter somewhere between "boned" and "t!ts up".
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The T.E.A. Party representatives are doing what the people that elected them told them to do. The American people are entitled to the same exemptions Obama has given his supporters and base. Blaming the Republicans is nothing more than political theater perpetuated by a willing press. The reality is quite different. Congress passed the law and should be forced onto the law.

Clearly, you don't grasp the concept of what the act does. It allows you to choose. If you like your current plan, you can keep it. That is what the Congressmen and the President are doing: Keeping the plans they have.

As for "doing what the people that elected them told them to do," obviously, a lot of those people changed their minds between November 2010 and November 2012, because the President who brought them Obamacare was easily re-elected.

Maybe the Tea Partiers should stop listening to only their own constituents, and start listening to ALL of America.

Actually, Washington Needs To Stop Listening To America
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Clearly, you don't grasp the concept of what the act does. It allows you to choose. If you like your current plan, you can keep it. That is what the Congressmen and the President are doing: Keeping the plans they have.

Yeah, right after they've pissed all over your existing plan you get to keep it if you wish. Right after they've created conditions making 29 hours a week with no health insurance the new full time, you can keep your plan (well, maybe not, huh?). Right after they've driven cost through the roof... and on and on.

As for "doing what the people that elected them told them to do," obviously, a lot of those people changed their minds between November 2010 and November 2012, because the President who brought them Obamacare was easily re-elected.

Yeah, like that was the only reason Obama won re-election. C'mon be serious.

Maybe the Tea Partiers should stop listening to only their own constituents, and start listening to ALL of America.

Actually, Washington Needs To Stop Listening To America

NO! Absolutely not. In what universe is it a good thing that representatives stop listening to their constituency? No thanks.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Much of that Federal support was probably state support that you easily don't understand. The support you get from the Federal Govt. is defense which is mandated by the Constitution. Not much else comes from the Federal Govt. that isn't a use tax like excise taxes on gasoline that fund the highways. Amazing how brainwashed supposedly intelligent people are
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/poli...more-than-it-gets-from-federal-government.ece


But you skipped this part.....which I understand why:

What is it about personal responsibility and neighbor helping neighbor that you don't understand?

Those are diametrically opposed, one is "boot-strappy", the other is "socialism". I'm all for neighbor helping neighbor, whether that neighbor is next door, across the street or across the city or across the country.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

This thread seems quite large.
There's this much to talk about, regarding the gov shutdown?
No, I didn't read the thread. Well, I read the mod warnings.

Personally, I think it's the fault of all of em. And by extension, all of us.
And we're making it worse.
They know we're all watching them atm. They know whoever gives in will at the least have some issues come reelection time.

So I think this will take awhile to work out.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Clearly, you don't grasp the concept of what the act does. It allows you to choose. If you like your current plan, you can keep it. That is what the Congressmen and the President are doing: Keeping the plans they have.

As for "doing what the people that elected them told them to do," obviously, a lot of those people changed their minds between November 2010 and November 2012, because the President who brought them Obamacare was easily re-elected.

Maybe the Tea Partiers should stop listening to only their own constituents, and start listening to ALL of America.

Actually, Washington Needs To Stop Listening To America

Do you get any news where you live, companies are dropping their plans so how do you keep a plan that no longer exists. How do you keep a doctor that is no longer accepting govt. healthcare? What you want to ignore is that Obamacare isn't popular, does nothing to lower costs, and does nothing to improve quality but because Obama says it is a good thing that is all that matters.

I really hate the fact that the T.E.A. Party is getting such a bad rap from people like you and others. Don't understand why everyone isn't a member.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

The most interesting thing is what would have happened had the Tea Party gone alone with the deal Boehner and Reid struck in July (a clean CR at 983 Billion).

Fresh from a beating on Syria, the media would have spent the last two weeks covering the disastrous ACA rollout. Republicans could have held hearings highlighting the problem followed by a bill delaying the mandate for a year. Obama and the Democrats would have taken a huge hit fighting such a "reasonable"
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/poli...more-than-it-gets-from-federal-government.ece


But you skipped this part.....which I understand why:



Those are diametrically opposed, one is "boot-strappy", the other is "socialism". I'm all for neighbor helping neighbor, whether that neighbor is next door, across the street or across the city or across the country.

Didn't read the article, did you? What is it going to take for you to admit that the Federal Govt. spends too much money and the Obama economic policies a disaster?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

I really hate the fact that the T.E.A. Party is getting such a bad rap from people like you and others. Don't understand why everyone isn't a member.

Because most of us have brains and cant think rationally.


The ACA is viewed favorably by about as many people as view it unfavorably.

Health Tracking Poll: Exploring the Public’s Views on the Affordable Care Act (ACA) | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Although this might change. A new WSJ poll has found lots more people view it favorably recently. Maybe its because its hard to understand until you see the exchanges in action.
The Republicans’ worst poll yet

The individual provisions within the plan are overwhelmingly favorable - no pre-existing conditions, extending coverage to age 26, etc.
 
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Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

The most interesting thing is what would have happened had the Tea Party gone alone with the deal Boehner and Reid struck in July (a clean CR at 983 Billion).

Fresh from a beating on Syria, the media would have spent the last two weeks covering the disastrous ACA rollout. Republicans could have held hearings highlighting the problem followed by a bill delaying the mandate for a year. Obama and the Democrats would have taken a huge hit fighting such a "reasonable" proposal.

I wouldn't suggest assuming the polls go beyond the immediate shutdown because in the end if the Democrats get everything they want they will be seen as the champions who saved a broken system that is unpopular. Not much political meat on that bone.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Didn't read the article, did you? What is it going to take for you to admit that the Federal Govt. spends too much money and the Obama economic policies a disaster?

Hey Con....just curious....how many times did you post about your heroes spending sprees and disasterous economic policies? Oh...yeah......right......carry on.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

The host being the United States of America, of course.

parasite is the tea party zealots and the host is the republican party.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Didn't read the article, did you?
Yes I did.
What is it going to take for you to admit that the Federal Govt. spends too much money and the Obama economic policies a disaster?
What is it going to take to get you to admit that "taking responsibility for yourself" and "neighbors helping neighbors" are diametrically opposed?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The individual provisions within the plan are overwhelmingly favorable - no pre-existing conditions, extending coverage to age 26, etc.
We'll see how "overwhelming favorable" those provisions are once people have to start paying for them.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

We'll see how "overwhelming favorable" those provisions are once people have to start paying for them.

We will, but I suspect that the basic concepts of being able to get insurance without a company sponsored insurance plan will outweigh the costs by a long shot.

This plan will also lead us onto the path of divorcing health care from employers for good. It may take a decade or two, but the path is there, and that will be much better for the US people, as well as the US economy.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Not all of them. Southern slaveholders certainly shared your view that slaves should have been counted the same as any other person.

Yeah, gee I wonder why? Nothing like having your representation in congress governed by how many black people you could own.:lamo
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

We will, but I suspect that the basic concepts of being able to get insurance without a company sponsored insurance plan will outweigh the costs by a long shot.
?? People always been able to do this. Maybe I missed what you were trying to say.

This plan will also lead us onto the path of divorcing health care from employers for good. It may take a decade or two, but the path is there, and that will be much better for the US people, as well as the US economy.
How do you expect that divorcing health care from employers (via Obamacare) will help the economy?
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

?? People always been able to do this. Maybe I missed what you were trying to say.


How do you expect that divorcing health care from employers (via Obamacare) will help the economy?

People could not do this too easily if they had a pre-existing condition. And the prices for that type of insurance were quite high - because the risk pool was much smaller and didnt generally include younger healthier patients - there just wasnt a good mechanism set up to do individual insurance at decent rates. The exchanges will change that considerably, and give subsidies for those who need it.. including entrepreneurs who want to start a business on their own, but were afraid to leave their company because they needed the health insurance. Big win.

Tying insurance to employment is a drag on our economy. Each business now is in the health care insurance market. The large company I work for actually self insures its employees, thus acting as a mini-health insurance company. This costs a heck of a lot of money. And it distracts the company, and every other company, from doing what they do well, because part of the business is running insurance.

Remember the concept of how a car has more healthcare costs in it than steel costs? That makes US products and industries less competitive than other nations. WE spend double on health care thru employers for below average results.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Remember the concept of how a car has more healthcare costs in it than steel costs? That makes US products and industries less competitive than other nations. WE spend double on health care thru employers for below average results.
I've never seen any credible evidence to show that our system provides "below average results" - life expectancy and infant mortality statistics are typically used as evidence and neither is a good indicator for quality of healthcare.

As for the cost difference, the vast majority of the excess occurs after retirement, when people have no employer tie-in and are instead covered by Medicare. Almost half of your lifetime cost will go to end-of-life care alone.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Hey Con....just curious....how many times did you post about your heroes spending sprees and disasterous economic policies? Oh...yeah......right......carry on.

Since I joined this forum in December 2009 I can say Zero since Bush wasn't in office.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Yes I did.What is it going to take to get you to admit that "taking responsibility for yourself" and "neighbors helping neighbors" are diametrically opposed?

Obviously not because you ignored what TX is getting from the Federal Govt. and why
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

I've never seen any credible evidence to show that our system provides "below average results" - life expectancy and infant mortality statistics are typically used as evidence and neither is a good indicator for quality of healthcare.

As for the cost difference, the vast majority of the excess occurs after retirement, when people have no employer tie-in and are instead covered by Medicare. Almost half of your lifetime cost will go to end-of-life care alone.

Read Aaron Carrolls series on this. Heres the conclusion:
How do we rate the quality of the US health care system

And for your convenience, heres the start:
How do we rate the quality of the US health care system – Introduction | The Incidental Economist
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Will the next GOP candidate for TX Gov. be affected by this shutdown, the thread title?
Do you support the slander of McCain by Gohmert saying McCain supported al Qaeda along with the rest of his 'Values Voter' vomit??
Did you support your Gov. using 9 billion from the stimulus to balance your budget, ripping the stim all the while?
Since I joined this forum in December 2009 I can say Zero since Bush wasn't in office.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Will the next GOP candidate for TX Gov. be affected by this shutdown, the thread title?
Do you support the slander of McCain by Gohmert saying McCain supported al Qaeda along with the rest of his 'Values Voter' vomit??
Did you support your Gov. using 9 billion from the stimulus to balance your budget, ripping the stim all the while?

No
No
Yes
 
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