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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Mithros said:
That's like saying that you're not paying the mortgage until your spouse agrees to stop buying Starbucks.
I hope you are trying to be intellectually dishonest and don't believe what you just said.

A mortgage is a set rate. If my mortgage company said they would shutdown my household if I didn't agree to a larger monthly payment than contracted for, I think I would have some legal action pending against them.


Mithros said:
The Government doesn't sit down and say.. Oh, I need a new pen. I think I'll buy some at Staples. Oh shoot, I can't, my credit card was denied.
How does this apply?


Mithros said:
Instead the government signs a contract with a supplier saying that they'll take x pens a month for y months at so much. Halfway through, the government can't pull out and say.. never mind.. That's too much. They have a legal obligation to meet their obligations. (Hence the name).
This is the type of government stupidity we need to stop.

I really hope you don't disagree...


Mithros said:
The discretionary part of government spending is done when a new budget is passed. If you want to say that we need to cut spending, then do it then. Trying to cut government spending with the debt limit is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline... and saying.. well it 'looked' like water.
Perhaps we shouldn't have any mandatory spending, except for what the constitution requires the government to do...
 
You're not a very good liar.

In the senate, no democrat votes were needed to pass in '03 0r '04. No republican votes were needed in '09.

'02... leading to Iraq war, folloing 9/11.

'07... following the recession...

In the House, several republicans voted no. Lots on no votes when it only takes 215 to pass instead of 218...

Where is ,03 for the house?

'04... same as '02... passing with 208? Don't forget, we are still rebuilding after 9/11 and waring in Iraq.

'05 and '06 House? Are you cherry picking by chance? Don't forget... Still at war...

Where is the republican help to pass for '09 and '10...
I'm a terrible liar. Which is why I avoid it.

Those are the only stand alone debt ceiling votes. The house wrapped the debt ceiling vote into other bills for those years.

And we're still at war, in case you've forgotten.
 
I hope you are trying to be intellectually dishonest and don't believe what you just said.
A mortgage is a set rate. If my mortgage company said they would shutdown my household if I didn't agree to a larger monthly payment than contracted for, I think I would have some legal action pending against them.

You have no idea how the debt works.

The treasury had to pay 7.4 trillion dollars in maturing debt in fiscal 13. They issued another 8.1. Our debt is very much like an ARM.

This is the type of government stupidity we need to stop.

I really hope you don't disagree...
Perhaps we shouldn't have any mandatory spending, except for what the constitution requires the government to do...
I really don't know what to say. Maybe you think you can just buy a new aircraft carrier at a super super WalMart, or maybe you just want to run the government out of a loose change fund.

Large organizations spend money through contracts. These take months to set up and run for years.

But please... call me a liar if it makes you feel better. God knows we'll all need the laughs if your band of nihilists has their say.
 
Mithros said:
I'm a terrible liar. Which is why I avoid it.
Yet you still attept misdirection.


Mithros said:
Those are the only stand alone debt ceiling votes.

The house wrapped the debt ceiling vote into other bills for those years.
So why not include the votes on the amendment that included it in the passed bill?

Too much work, or does it not show what you desire?


Mithros said:
And we're still at war, in case you've forgotten.
The Iraq war was over for some time. The Afghanistan war should have ended around the same time. Obama is using military might in places he has no business in, starting with that first day he fired 112 cruise missiles into Libya.

No excuse for this unethical action. In Iraq and Afghanistan, this was retaliation that was overwhelmingly agree to by both parties.

Obama has routinely fired missile attacks into urban areas. There is no universally agreed definition for terrorism, but Obama's actions do classify as terrorism by some definition. Do you support this?
 
Anyone notice that Obama's numbers are sucking ass too? Legacy baby!!
 
Yet you still attept misdirection.



So why not include the votes on the amendment that included it in the passed bill?

Too much work, or does it not show what you desire?



The Iraq war was over for some time. The Afghanistan war should have ended around the same time. Obama is using military might in places he has no business in, starting with that first day he fired 112 cruise missiles into Libya.

No excuse for this unethical action. In Iraq and Afghanistan, this was retaliation that was overwhelmingly agree to by both parties.

Obama has routinely fired missile attacks into urban areas. There is no universally agreed definition for terrorism, but Obama's actions do classify as terrorism by some definition. Do you support this?
Republicans Need a Graceful Exit Strategy, Now - Bloomberg

This is an article from a conservative who hates Obama Care. Every point she makes is spot on.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

I see no reason for the Democrats to negotiate.
Neither do they. While they do not negotiate the government will remain partially shut down. Why isn't this a good thing?

The shutdown occured because of the GOP House tied defunding of the ACA to the CR.
Let's assume you are completely right that the Republicans did not fund the small additional amount to propagandize the ACA. Wouldn't it be equally correct to say the Democrats shut down the government because they did not get everything the Senate Democrats wanted?

This was a stupid tactic that at the moment Boehner and company can't find a way out of it.
Do you believe this is stupid because it is working?

The Republicans would have been better served IMO, to pass the CR without the rider of defunding the ACA. then the chances in November of 2014 after a full year of the ACA with all it worts probably would have delivered the senate to their control.
So you believe the Republicans best position themselves to win elections by capitulating? Doesn't this seem strange to you?

IMO the republicans are engaging in this battle at the wrong time with the wrong strategy.
In your opinion when is the right time and what is the right strategy for standing up to tyranny?

With Boehner saying he wouldn't let the government default, why should the Democrats negotiate? All they have to do is wait until that time as they are banking on Boehner not being able to sleep at night if he did let the government default.
LOL. There is plenty of money to pay the interest on the debt. But there won't be enough money to fund all of the Left's darling projects. Why isn't this a win for the nation? Why should we ever fund the government?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

The bill is now law. Holding the economy hostage over a law which is a done deal is not "negotiating", it's blackmail.
Slavery was once the law. Separated but equal was once law. Shall we return to slavery?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Nothing to be sorry about. I agree, very few people actually pay attention to what is going on in Washington. From a Republican perspective, passing these mini spending bills and sending them to the senate is their way of saying they are passing the shutdown blame onto those in the senate. This portion which means a lot if not everything to the GOP means nothing to the Democrats and as you say, those in-between the two parties aren't paying attention to this. The Democrats seem to want on all encompassing CR with funding for the ACA are are willing to take their chances that most Americans will know nothing about these mini funding bills.
Those "mini-funding bills" have a name. They are appropriations bills and sending up one at a time is the way it was always done up until recently. Massive spending bills that no one reads are the road to tyranny which is why we are here. It is time to return to individual appropriations bills.

Now is as good a time as any.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The compromise the right is proposing is to get rid of Obamacare, that isn't a compromise for the Dems. The GOP is wanting the Dems to cut their signature bill. It would be the equivalent of the Dems going, you need to cut the military by 75%. It just isn't going to happen that way and that's why it is looked at the right not compromising.

The Democrats have cut, waived, and suspended many parts of Obamacare already....all on their own. All they're worried about now is being punked.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

It shows the 35 straight months of job growth. It is not something a Republican President has done lately. They have been too busy presiding over recessions.
So the economy is booming?
 
Your passion for liberalism is admirable but borders on obsession, why?

Right.. It's an obsession with liberalism...

If the Republicans were to pass clean CR's and raise the debt limit at 986 Billion they would be seen to be acting "rationally". This would give the GOP leverage when the CR expires and congress is forced to pass a new budget. The STARTING point of negotiations would be 2% more spending than the Ryan budget, and every single Democrat would have supported spending at those levels.

You'd start the negotiations only 19 Billion dollars away from the Ryan Budget!!! The shut down is going to cost us more than that. Somehow that's where we'd be starting budget negotiations even though the GOP had lost lost 5 of the last 6 national elections and the 2012 house by 2million votes. Somehow you've still gotten virtually everything you wanted, and yet you walk around like the Democrats are screwing you.

In reality the Democrats and the President have gotten absolutely fleeced by the GOP. But you have a mental deficiency; I call it winaphobia. The prospect of accepting victory terrifies you.

FundingLevelCharticle-1.jpg
 
Right.. It's an obsession with liberalism...

If the Republicans were to pass clean CR's and raise the debt limit at 986 Billion they would be seen to be acting "rationally". This would give the GOP leverage when the CR expires and congress is forced to pass a new budget. The STARTING point of negotiations would be 2% more spending than the Ryan budget, and every single Democrat would have supported spending at those levels.

You'd start the negotiations only 19 Billion dollars away from the Ryan Budget!!! The shut down is going to cost us more than that. Somehow that's where we'd be starting budget negotiations even though the GOP had lost lost 5 of the last 6 national elections and the 2012 house by 2million votes. Somehow you've still gotten virtually everything you wanted, and yet you walk around like the Democrats are screwing you.

In reality the Democrats and the President have gotten absolutely fleeced by the GOP. But you have a mental deficiency; I call it winaphobia. The prospect of accepting victory terrifies you.

View attachment 67154885

Acting rationally to whom? You believe the debt ceiling should be raised when the current debt exceeds our yearly GDP? Some and most rational people would say that is insane. I am not happy with the current GOP either and would like to kick most of them out as well. There is no excuse for a 17 trillion dollar debt
 
Believe as you wish. Your fictional thoughts most certainly will not work.

That's the point. You can't dig your way out of a hole. Perhaps you need an illustration.
stop_digging_104355.jpg

Notice that I chose a cartoon that makes fun of both Hillary and Obama. I figured that you wouldn't understand it unless it somehow made fun of a Democrat.

If you need further help understanding I suggest you dig a hole in your backyard that is deep enough that you can't crawl out of it. Then jump in and dig your way out. Make sure you get all of the dirt out of the hole. Do this until the debt ceiling has been raised. Then you can proudly call yourself a TRUE conservative.
 
Acting rationally to whom? You believe the debt ceiling should be raised when the current debt exceeds our yearly GDP? Some and most rational people would say that is insane. I am not happy with the current GOP either and would like to kick most of them out as well. There is no excuse for a 17 trillion dollar debt
Name one rational person who thinks that raising the debt ceiling is "insane".
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Neither do they. While they do not negotiate the government will remain partially shut down. Why isn't this a good thing?


Let's assume you are completely right that the Republicans did not fund the small additional amount to propagandize the ACA. Wouldn't it be equally correct to say the Democrats shut down the government because they did not get everything the Senate Democrats wanted?


Do you believe this is stupid because it is working?


So you believe the Republicans best position themselves to win elections by capitulating? Doesn't this seem strange to you?


In your opinion when is the right time and what is the right strategy for standing up to tyranny?


LOL. There is plenty of money to pay the interest on the debt. But there won't be enough money to fund all of the Left's darling projects. Why isn't this a win for the nation? Why should we ever fund the government?

It doesn’t really bother me that the government is shut down or not. I been through 17 of these and to me it really isn’t a big deal. But I was commenting on whom I thought is to blame and it is the GOP tying that rider onto the CR.

I personally have no use for Senator Reid, old party over country, McConnell is also that way. But what I was trying to say, is let the ACA kick in with worts and all, after a year it is the people who can decide by who or who doesn’t control the senate. I also do not believe it is working. If the latest news I hear, Boehner has already dropped the defunding of the ACA and added other stuff that would make it more easy to negotiate.

Capitulating, no. It is called picking the right time, the right place and have the right resources and perhaps the majority of the people on your side. Picking a fight should be well thought out which I have the impression this one was not. Using one’s head and avoiding a battle too soon that you are not prepared for is not capitulating, it is called living to fight another day.

Yes I have argued that point about more than enough money to pay the interest and service the debt. If this country defaults, it won’t be because of money coming in. It will be because the treasury secretary or some other person put the wrong priorities on spending what was coming in. The interest payments should be made first and then use what left to fund necessary items in the government, not the nice to have items.

But even so, when that rider was tied to the cr, Boehner and every republican in congress knew that it wasn’t going to fly. To me, it showed me a total lack of political common sense on the GOP side of the aisle. Politics is said to be the art of the possible. Trying to do the impossible leads to bad choices and perhaps yes, capitulation or worse.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

The Democrats have cut, waived, and suspended many parts of Obamacare already....all on their own. All they're worried about now is being punked.

Your way out of date. There are no more demands to defund or delay Obamacare, the T's have moved on to entitlements. You have to keep up.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Those "mini-funding bills" have a name. They are appropriations bills and sending up one at a time is the way it was always done up until recently. Massive spending bills that no one reads are the road to tyranny which is why we are here. It is time to return to individual appropriations bills.

Now is as good a time as any.

That I can agree with. Personally I am fed up with both parties.
 
Name one rational person who thinks that raising the debt ceiling is "insane".

Anyone that understands that having a 17 trillion dollar debt on a 16 trillion dollar economy!!! Why aren't you outraged over that debt? Aren't you rational?
 
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