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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

I will put it this why, ..when you are born in this world, not you are mandated by law, force to buy private sector product, even though you do not want it.

please do not site car insurance......its a poor argument.

Were you born in a hospital? Would be kinda hard getting cash out of a baby though
 
I will put it this why, ..when you are born in this world, not you are mandated by law, force to buy private sector product, even though you do not want it.

please do not site car insurance......its a poor argument.
This is a nearly illegible counter-argument to the individual mandate.....it is not a counter to the point that the ACA brings down restrictions set by insurance corp's, ie, creating equal access.

Try a little context...OK?
 
How in the world is the ACA anything but equality of opportunity?

We were discussing the current mantra of "it's the wealthy that are the problem, and they need to pay more," which is an unusual stance from Obama, who is a multi-millionaire.

To answer your question: The ACA, except for the waivers and exemptions that have been granted to some, is certainly an equality of opportunity moment for those who find that they are now required to have insurance. Do you know how the subsidies are going to be determined for those that don't have the money to pay for it?

Greetings, gimmesome truth. :2wave:
 
Were you born in a hospital? Would be kinda hard getting cash out of a baby though

as a citizen I have liberty because of my humanity, how does government have authority to order me to buy a private sector product I do not wish, that goes against our founding principles.
 
Yes, except every point you just made is a lie! If these things are really going to be a problem, then why not wait one year, and then come back with the evidence, at which point we can all reasonably agree to repeal the Affordable care act--THAT IS, UNLESS THE REPUBLICANS KNOW THEIR POINTS ARE LIES, THAT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WILL PROVE THEM WRONG, THAT THEY REALLY ONLY CARE ABOUT THEIR ALREADY FAT POCKETBOOKS, AND THAT, LASTLY, THEY ARE ONLY MAKING AN IMPOSSIBLE DEMAND SO THAT THEY CAN SAY DEMOCRATS ARE UNWILLING TO NEGOTIATE!

Would you point out where I lied? If the President's claim is that 30M people who currently do not have insurance is somewhat accurate, then, by definition, that is a minority, and if you would look at why they don't have it, it is because they cannot afford it in most cases. Now, if they can't currently pay for insurance, what in the hell makes you think they could pay for deductibles and co-pays with no out-of-pocket maximum for 2014?
 
This is a nearly illegible counter-argument to the individual mandate.....it is not a counter to the point that the ACA brings down restrictions set by insurance corp's, ie, creating equal access.

Try a little context...OK?

individual mandates, can you show me where the congress has authority over you and I in the u.s. constitution, because I can show you they don't, and even Madison states the same, they have no authority.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

LOL...

You don't get it, do you? Seems that you lack any understanding of leadership and economic policies fully ignoring the impact on numbers by economic policies and lack of leadership. I have no idea what relevance this chart has?

LOL...

Why doesn't that surprise me?
 
as a citizen I have liberty because of my humanity, how does government have authority to order me to buy a private sector product I do not wish, that goes against our founding principles.

Then why do some state governments oppose abortions, make it impossible for a woman to obtain one? Would that be considered the state implimenting a unwritten mandate that forces women to have a baby they did not want have?
 
Then why do some state governments oppose abortions, make it impossible for a woman to obtain one? Would that be considered the state implimenting a unwritten mandate that forces women to have a baby they did not want have?

Because that authority was left to the States...
 
We were discussing the current mantra of "it's the wealthy that are the problem, and they need to pay more," which is an unusual stance from Obama, who is a multi-millionaire.
The context was that the teabags want to defund the ACA, to threaten default over the ACA. If the comment that "we are a country of equal opportunity", how is that in opposition to the ACA?

To answer your question: The ACA, except for the waivers and exemptions that have been granted to some, is certainly an equality of opportunity moment for those who find that they are now required to have insurance.
Then you concede to my point.


Do you know how the subsidies are going to be determined for those that don't have the money to pay for it?
Primarily based on income.

So?
 
The House is in session, the Senate is in session, and the President is in town. What's missing for a negotiation to take place? :roll:

The interest in doing so, from all concerned? That's just a guess on my part, though. :twocents:
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Bush jr. had a net LOSS of jobs in his administration. Less people were working when he left than when he started. It was Clinton who created more jobs than Reagan and the 2 Bushes combined.

When will you liberal start realizing that presidents cannot create jobs? Their voice can influence the job market, but that's it.
 
The interest in doing so, from all concerned? That's just a guess on my part, though. :twocents:

Actually, there are only two entities refusing to come to the table, and one is not the House...
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

So I am told, looks like the only jobs Obama is creating are part time jobs. You really need to get over your BDS, Bush has been out of office for almost 5 years now and it is amazing that so many people keep trying to compare Obama results to someone they really despise and get frustrated when the Bush numbers are better.
Consider the population growth and looking at percentages. Jobs are not increasing. They have not kept up wityh population increases of working age.
 
I will put it this why, ..when you are born in this world, not you are mandated by law, force to buy private sector product, even though you do not want it.

WAKE UP!

If you don't want to buy the product, then you don't have to, just pay the fine! You're entire argument rests on the assumption that the private sector can provide an essential service--HEALTHCARE IS ESSENTIAL; OTHERWISE, DO YOU SUGGEST THAT WE LET PEOPLE DIE IN THE STREETS?--at an affordable cost; however, the evidence shows that the private sector was unable to do this, and that is why we NEED the government to step in! You have to understand that the interests of the private sector contradict the interests of the citizen, so if you want to blame someone, then blame your own selfish, greedy, egotistic world view which forces government to step in, so that you can then complain about it, while providing no better alternative! So how are you going to solve the healthcare problem again? Oh, wait, you can't answer that question because your only answer is the private sector, which has already proven ineffective.
 
individual mandates, can you show me where the congress has authority over you and I in the u.s. constitution, because I can show you they don't, and even Madison states the same, they have no authority.
FFS, what interest does an admirer of a NAZI tank commander have in Madison.....and why do you think I am in the least interested in following you down your rabbit hole when it continues to ignore the context?

go away.
 
Then why do some state governments oppose abortions, make it impossible for a woman to obtain one? Would that be considered the state implimenting a unwritten mandate that forces women to have a baby they did not want have?

well by what you posted, your stating a state government. state governments do have some authority in our daily life's, however they cannot infringe on our rights.

anti- abortions people are not seeking to stop abortions to take away a woman's right to choose, but they see it has a right to life issue, that the unborn have a right, ..so we are dealing with a woman's right to her body issue from the left..... and a right to life issue from the right.

I myself think abortion is wrong, however that is opinion, and I respect people's right to their own body...because your body is your property according to Madison.
 
WAKE UP!

If you don't want to buy the product, then you don't have to, just pay the fine! You're entire argument rests on the assumption that the private sector can provide an essential service--HEALTHCARE IS ESSENTIAL; OTHERWISE, DO YOU SUGGEST THAT WE LET PEOPLE DIE IN THE STREETS?--at an affordable cost; however, the evidence shows that the private sector was unable to do this, and that is why we NEED the government to step in! You have to understand that the interests of the private sector contradict the interests of the citizen, so if you want to blame someone, then blame your own selfish, greedy, egotistic world view which forces government to step in, so that you can then complain about it, while providing no better alternative! So how are you going to solve the healthcare problem again? Oh, wait, you can't answer that question because your only answer is the private sector, which has already proven ineffective.

You can actually blame wage controls instituted during WWII for our current system. I forget, who was the President?
 
FFS, what interest does an admirer of a NAZI tank commander have in Madison.....and why do you think I am in the least interested in following you down your rabbit hole when it continues to ignore the context?

go away.

you tell me to go away, since you have to deflect, and talk about Nazis instead...... please if you cannot formula an argument, when why respond?
 
Sorry, no debate - it's called the tenth amendment.

The tenth ammendment does not say anything about the federal government making a case for aquiring state powers at a later time. The constution does not say that the federal government is limited only to the powers expressly or explicitly delagated to it. That is why there are such things as implied powers and concurant powers.
 
Actually, there are only two entities refusing to come to the table, and one is not the House...
There were 18 requests from Dems to work out a compromise, the GOP house did not agree to a meeting until after the budget deadline.

Boehner will not bring a clean CR to the floor.....because it would pass with GOP votes.
It is a game by the house leadership, in spite of their denials.
 
WAKE UP!

If you don't want to buy the product, then you don't have to, just pay the fine! You're entire argument rests on the assumption that the private sector can provide an essential service--HEALTHCARE IS ESSENTIAL; OTHERWISE, DO YOU SUGGEST THAT WE LET PEOPLE DIE IN THE STREETS?--at an affordable cost; however, the evidence shows that the private sector was unable to do this, and that is why we NEED the government to step in! You have to understand that the interests of the private sector contradict the interests of the citizen, so if you want to blame someone, then blame your own selfish, greedy, egotistic world view which forces government to step in, so that you can then complain about it, while providing no better alternative! So how are you going to solve the healthcare problem again? Oh, wait, you can't answer that question because your only answer is the private sector, which has already proven ineffective.

Too many silly assumptions. People will just as easily die on the streets under Obamacare as not. There is no difference in emergency care. And private insurance covered more people and better than any other single nation. But you miss the main point, the feds are not empowered by the Constitution to mandate healthcare insurance.
 
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