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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

AlabamaPaul said:
If it's time to move forward, why is the President refusing to sit down with all sides to try to find a resolution to the impasse? As it is now, the President wants to get everything in exchange for future negotiations which we all know will never occur...
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This is a weak point, so let me help you here: The republican strategy is to make an impossible demand so that they can then say that the President is unwilling to negotiate! The resolution is the political ruination of the Tea Party and the return to sensible democracy!
 
polgara said:
Ironic how that message has been blurred lately! It does, however, serve to divide, which is interesting when you consider that those doing the dividing are part of the wealthy that are being vilified. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and many others in DC are multi-millionaires today, but you sure wouldn't know know that if, as a poor person, all you heard from them was "it's the wealthy that are the problem." Uninformed people are certainly a plus when one has an agenda!

Greetings, AP. :2wave:
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Good afternoon pg. I hope all is well on your end. Isn't Cleveland leading their NFL division?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Because the crux of the disagreement is over the issue of obamacare. The healthcare exchanges are already up and running so what is the point of delaying it now? Besides the democrats are sick of having to return to the issue of health care reform every time the house votes to defund or repeal obamacare. Why is it neccessary to to vote on the same law 40 times when there are other things do.
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The point is that the President to sit down an discuss ANYTHING unless he gets what he wants first, which sort of negates a negotiation...
 
Old English said:
This is a weak point, so let me help you here: The republican strategy is to make an impossible demand so that they can then say that the President is unwilling to negotiate! The resolution is the political ruination of the Tea Party and the return to sensible democracy!
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There are no intransigent positions until a negotiation can take place, and when the other "side" refuses to come to the table, whom would you consider intransigent ...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
The point is that the President to sit down an discuss ANYTHING unless he gets what he wants first, which sort of negates a negotiation...
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Keeping the government open and functioning is part of the congresses job. The negotiations should not include any haggling over keeping the government open.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Keeping the government open and functioning is part of the congresses job.
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The House did its job, passed a CR since the Obama budget got zero votes, the Senate rejected it and shut down the govt. Obama is a street thug who is used to getting his way. That is the Chicago way of negotiating.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Keeping the government open and functioning is part of the congresses job. The negotiations should not include any haggling over keeping the government open.
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Could you point out where this is in the Constitution?
 
AlabamaPaul said:
The point is that the President to sit down an discuss ANYTHING unless he gets what he wants first, which sort of negates a negotiation...
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It's not really a matter of getting what he wants, it's a matter of getting what the American people want; now, not to say that the tea party aren't Americans--however, there is nothing more unpatriotic and unamerican than not standing with the president--but if we want to look at who the American people really are and what this country was really built on: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, AND THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON MAJORITY RULE! Therefore, by default, you can't criticize the president for not negotiating, you can only criticize the tea party and their complaisant republican allies!

P.S. This point is unbeatable, really...
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Keeping the government open and functioning is part of the congresses job.
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well government, meaning the legislative and judicial are open, it parts of the executive which are closed.

money is still flowing into Washington it just that money has to be prioritized now to spend on things which are essential government functions.

as to congress duties, they are listed here:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

the general welfare is the 18 powers of congress
 
Old English said:
It's not really a matter of getting what he wants, it's a matter of getting what the American people want; now, not to say that the tea party aren't Americans--however, there is nothing more unpatriotic and unamerican than not standing with the president--but if we want to look at who the American people really are and what this country was really built on: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, AND THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON MAJORITY RULE! Therefore, by default, you can't criticize the president for not negotiating, you can only criticize the tea party and their complaisant republican allies!
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Really? Please cite the polls showing that the American People want the ACA?

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of Health Care Law

Didn't realize that 40% was a majority
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Good afternoon pg. I hope all is well on your end. Isn't Cleveland leading their NFL division?
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Yes they are, but you have to agree that it has been a most unusual year in every respect! :mrgreen: And I'm a fan! Ohio State is 6-0, which also makes us happy, too! Everything is fine with me, and I hope the same is true for you and yours!
 
Old English said:
It's not really a matter of getting what he wants, it's a matter of getting what the American people want; now, not to say that the tea party aren't Americans--however, there is nothing more unpatriotic and unamerican than not standing with the president--but if we want to look at who the American people really are and what this country was really built on: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, AND THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON MAJORITY RULE! Therefore, by default, you can't criticize the president for not negotiating, you can only criticize the tea party and their complaisant republican allies!

P.S. This point is unbeatable, really...
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Those who already have insurance through their employers maybe, but I doubt you'll find many without insurance wanting another bill to pay, especially once they find out what the deductibles and co-payments are...
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What point is the constitution if the government it created cannot enforce its basic duties?

Or let me put it this way, what use is a engine of car if the car has no chassis to hold the engine in.
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The basic duties are many with controlling spending being one of those...
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What point is the constitution if the government it created cannot enforce its basic duties?

Or let me put it this way, what use is a engine of car if the car has no chassis to hold the engine in.
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the constitution sets up our government, however it lets the upper and lower house write its own rules.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Those who already have insurance through their employers maybe, but I doubt you'll find many without insurance wanting another bill to pay, especially once they find out what the deductibles and co-payments are...
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It's cheaper than waiting until you get sick.
 
Old English said:
It's not really a matter of getting what he wants, it's a matter of getting what the American people want; now, not to say that the tea party aren't Americans--however, there is nothing more unpatriotic and unamerican than not standing with the president--but if we want to look at who the American people really are and what this country was really built on: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, AND THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON MAJORITY RULE! Therefore, by default, you can't criticize the president for not negotiating, you can only criticize the tea party and their complaisant republican allies!

P.S. This point is unbeatable, really...
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not correct! it was build on republican government, not democratic government
 
AlabamaPaul said:
The basic duties are many with controlling spending being one of those...
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How is a government supposed to do that if it cannot do the basic requirement of staying open.

Keeping the government is a essinatial part governing, you have to do it. It is a requirement like having a working engine to operate car or needing nails, wood, and Hammer to build a shed.

It is one of the unspoken duties of government.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Those who already have insurance through their employers maybe, but I doubt you'll find many without insurance wanting another bill to pay, especially once they find out what the deductibles and co-payments are...
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Yes, except every point you just made is a lie! If these things are really going to be a problem, then why not wait one year, and then come back with the evidence, at which point we can all reasonably agree to repeal the Affordable care act--THAT IS, UNLESS THE REPUBLICANS KNOW THEIR POINTS ARE LIES, THAT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WILL PROVE THEM WRONG, THAT THEY REALLY ONLY CARE ABOUT THEIR ALREADY FAT POCKETBOOKS, AND THAT, LASTLY, THEY ARE ONLY MAKING AN IMPOSSIBLE DEMAND SO THAT THEY CAN SAY DEMOCRATS ARE UNWILLING TO NEGOTIATE!
 
Gimmesometruth said:
How in the world is the ACA anything but equality of opportunity?
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I will put it this why, ..when you are born in this world, not you are mandated by law, force to buy private sector product, even though you do not want it.

please do not site car insurance......its a poor argument.
 
Old English said:
Yes, except every point you just made is a lie! If these things are really going to be a problem, then why not wait one year, and then come back with the evidence, at which point we can all reasonably agree to repeal the Affordable care act--THAT IS, UNLESS THE REPUBLICANS KNOW THEIR POINTS ARE LIES, THAT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WILL PROVE THEM WRONG, THAT THEY REALLY ONLY CARE ABOUT THEIR ALREADY FAT POCKETBOOKS, AND THAT, LASTLY, THEY ARE ONLY MAKING AN IMPOSSIBLE DEMAND SO THAT THEY CAN SAY DEMOCRATS ARE UNWILLING TO NEGOTIATE!
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Calm down, no need to shout. Why can't the rest of us get the same reprieve the insiders get? If they're so sure this is a beneficial program, why give any exceptions? And you should know very well that the longer a government program is allowed to establish it's footprint the larger the liklihood it can never be destroyed. Obamacare is headed for Too Big To Fail status - we have to head it off before it gets there.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
How is a government supposed to do that if it cannot do the basic requirement of staying open.

Keeping the government is a essinatial part governing, you have to do it. It is a requirement like having a working engine to operate car or needing nails, wood, and Hammer to build a shed.

It is one of the unspoken duties of government.
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The House is in session, the Senate is in session, and the President is in town. What's missing for a negotiation to take place? :roll:
 
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