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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

That idiot would be me and I have called much worse by the real idiots in this thread who have no concept of leadership and understanding of personal pain and suffering from a period of time when they probably weren't even born. I don't put a lot of faith in much that you say because you simply do not have any concept of how recessions affect individuals especially a recession compounded by high inflation, high unemployment, and high interest rates. You see, you have no understanding how economic policy affects those areas and thus it is easy for you to look at the 07-09 recession as worse because we are still experiencing the effects of that recession due to zero Presidential leadership.

Continue to buy what the left elites tell you and ignore the actual economic policies and leadership that led us out of the 81-82 recession compared to the lack of leadership today because that doesn't suit your ideology and political beliefs. You want badly to believe that totally incompetent President we have today who somehow believes that bigger govt. and massive dependence somehow creates economic prosperity. A President that believes the private sector will continue to create jobs and economic growth by penalizing it with increased costs and regulations. You are part of the problem and never will be part of the solution because quite simply you live in a liberal dream world that simply doesn't exist.
Reagan was senile throughout most of his presidency. Fact.

Another fact: He was shot and in the hospital 3 months after being inaugurated. Everyone who knew him at the time said he was never the same after that traumatic event. His recovery was long and slow. He had a hard time staying focused and never again was able to manage going for long without needing rest.

Reagan's wonderful leadership is all in your head.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Reagan was senile throughout most of his presidency. Fact.

Another fact: He was shot and in the hospital 3 months after being inaugurated. Everyone who knew him at the time said he was never the same after that traumatic event. His recovery was long and slow. He had a hard time staying focused and never again was able to manage going for long without needing rest.

Reagan's wonderful leadership is all in your head.

Your facts are your opinions, Reagan's second term wasn't stellar but he already accomplished what was required, something Obama certainly hasn't come close to doing. Reagan's wonderful leadership is in the numbers and the shortness of a severe recession. Your hatred of a good man, a former President who is deceased is sickening. That is something I would expect from the loony left not someone who claims to be a centrist. There is nothing centrist in either you or randel
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Your facts are your opinions, Reagan's second term wasn't stellar but he already accomplished what was required, something Obama certainly hasn't come close to doing. Reagan's wonderful leadership is in the numbers and the shortness of a severe recession. Your hatred of a good man, a former President who is deceased is sickening. That is something I would expect from the loony left not someone who claims to be a centrist. There is nothing centrist in either you or randel

Here is where we can agree believe it or not. Reagan did a better job that any other Republican since Eisenhower. He wisely spent his way out his recession, signed the largest tax increase in history and even though he tripled our debt, at least he knew revenue was part of the equation. I long for someone on the Right with half the sense he had. All we have now are total morons who have sold out to their rich benefactors who manipulate them like puppets on a string. With all his faults, Reagan truly cared about this country and its people. That is what is missing from the current crop of Republicans.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Lost in all this is the real common sense solution - adopt a balanced budget that doesn't require taking on further debt. Of course that seems to be the last solution either side of the political aisle wants the public to notice.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Your facts are your opinions, Reagan's second term wasn't stellar but he already accomplished what was required, something Obama certainly hasn't come close to doing. Reagan's wonderful leadership is in the numbers and the shortness of a severe recession. Your hatred of a good man, a former President who is deceased is sickening. That is something I would expect from the loony left not someone who claims to be a centrist. There is nothing centrist in either you or randel
Centrist just means not committed to either the Right or Left.

Like I said, his greatness is all in your head. It's something you convinced yourself to believe just like you think the recession of 81 was worse than the current recession.

Here's the real Ronald Reagan:

Reagan administration scandals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most well-known and politically damaging of the scandals came to light in November 1986, when Ronald Reagan conceded that the United States had sold weapons to the Islamic Republic of Iran, as part of a largely unsuccessful effort to secure the release of six U.S. citizens being held hostage in Lebanon. It was also disclosed that some of the money from the arms deal with Iran had been covertly and illegally funneled into a fund to aid the right-wing Contras counter-revolutionary groups seeking to overthrow the socialist Sandinista government of Nicaragua.

The HUD rigging scandal consisted of Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Samuel Pierce and his associates rigging low income housing bids to favor Republican contributors to Reagan's campaign as well as rewarding Republican lobbyists such as James G. Watt a former Secretary of the Interior.

Sewergate, the most prominent EPA scandal during this period, involved the targeted release of Superfund grants to enhance the election prospects of local officials aligned with the Republican Party.

Michael Deaver, Reagan’s Chief of Staff, was convicted of lying to both a congressional committee and to a federal grand jury about his lobbying activities after he left the government.

Inslaw Affair (1985-1994+); a protracted legal case that alleged that top-level officials of President Ronald Reagan's (R) Department of Justice were involved in software piracy of the Promis program from Inslaw Inc. forcing it into bankruptcy and then failed to appoint an independent counsel to investigate it

Savings and loan crisis in which 747 institutions failed and had to be rescued with $160 billion in taxpayer dollars (Banking scandals during GOP administration seem to be quite common, just ask GW Bush).

Debategate refers to a scandal affecting the administration of Ronald Reagan; it involved the final days of the 1980 presidential election and briefing papers that were to have been used by President Jimmy Carter in preparation for the October 28, 1980, debate with Reagan had somehow been acquired by Reagan's team.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Here is where we can agree believe it or not. Reagan did a better job that any other Republican since Eisenhower. He wisely spent his way out his recession, signed the largest tax increase in history and even though he tripled our debt, at least he knew revenue was part of the equation. I long for someone on the Right with half the sense he had. All we have now are total morons who have sold out to their rich benefactors who manipulate them like puppets on a string. With all his faults, Reagan truly cared about this country and its people. That is what is missing from the current crop of Republicans.

LOL, you actually believe Obama and today's Democrat Party care about this country? They care about their power and their ability to keep their power by destroying any threat to it. Reagan's so called largest tax increases in history were use tax increases. If you don't use the services you don't pay the taxes, apparently another subject you know little about. Income tax rates were cut three years in a row and income tax revenue grew by 60% something liberals said would never happen with tax cuts. Reagan's tax cuts stimulated the private sector and 17 million total jobs were created. Economic growth comes from creating incentive, not penalizing success.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Actually aside from the narrative, (which is false btw) the polls I have seen have it pretty even, more along the lines of 36% blame republicans, 32% blame Democrats, and 17% blame Obama himself....

Personally, I think that republicans do indeed share in the blame, but you can't put it all on them when people want compromise, house republicans do exactly that, and demo's come back with 'NO, our way, or nothing, and we will lie and blame you for it....!'

LOL Your idea of compromise is like a kidnapper who sends his victim back a piece at a time.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Centrist just means not committed to either the Right or Left.

Like I said, his greatness is all in your head. It's something you convinced yourself to believe just like you think the recession of 81 was worse than the current recession.

Here's the real Ronald Reagan:

Reagan administration scandals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Demonizing a former deceased President is a sickness, seek help. Reagan has nothing to do with this thread topic and your comments only show your ignorance and exactly the kind of person you are. It isn't a pretty picture
 
But where does that money come from when that bond is paid?

From revenue/bond sales.

Is it pinned to productivity?

No, nor is it intended to be pinned to productivity. That doesn't even make sense.

It is purely an inflationary pressure. It is purely an increase in currency.

Nope! It is purely a cash flow into the private sector. It is not an increase in the money supply as the proceeds come directly from the current monetary stock.

That doesn't mean that inflation happens when a bond is paid, but in means that the central bank is forced to push deflationary measures to counter it.

You simply have no idea of what you speak.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Let me guess...... next year another delay? :doh And after that? Ray Charles can see this coming a mile away and he is both dead and blind. :roll:
I agree with you Hay. It is better to kill it this year. Think of all of the money the taxpayers will save by not having to foot the bills for other peoples' health insurance.

It also gets rid of an unconstitutional stinker.
 
I''ll say this one more time. The debt did not go up, only those figures did. When a ) buys T-bills with their excess revenue so they may earn interest, it is added to the debt figures you are so fond of. But it is not real debt is it? It is excess REVENUE. When those t bills are cashed in the debt goes down. Your hoaxers are using a table that counts excess revenue of the trust funds (and there are many) as debt and that's how they are fooling you.

You not what you are talking about. .. The ss trust fund, which is what we're really talking about does not buy treasury issuances. Once you figure this you'll recognize the absurdity of your comments above.
 
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Re: Most would blame Republicans

Understanding the meaning of non-essential. Would there be an emergency crisis if such and such agency closed down for a few days? The passport office is a good example. But you can't let them stay closed forever unless you want open borders. Should West Point and Annapolis or at least their grounds keeping staff be sent home forever? Should we permanently close down the Washington Monument, The Lincoln Memorial and cancel all future grounds-keeping of Arlington National Cemetery?
It is time to privatize them.
 
I neither again... The ss trust fund, which is what we're really talking about does not buy treasury issuances. Once you figure this you'll recognize the absurdity of your comments above.

It does not matter what instrument they buy, the debt accrues from it anyway. But debt does not come from revenue does it? If you are not a college graduate in economics you should stick to the CBO debt numbers. They do the math for you.
 
I have to say, these low information Obama voters are incredibly stupid. Listening to some liberal radio this week, they are constantly calling in and asking why the republicans are not being arrested for extortion or terrorism or treason. As if the democrats are the only ones allowed to have an opinion on legislation. They truly believe that the State should crush opposing views, as long as it's not theirs.
 
How can output outpace productivity when productivity is output per individual? The only way output can grow faster than productivity is if you also increase participation, which has no effect on inflation.

Inflation occurs when nominal GDP growth is higher than productivity growth; it's not even up for debate.

A less-wonkish explanation of the concept can be found here.

The author is likely to be our next Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

That's really not a reasonable analogy in the least, unless you have such little disdain for the workforce of the federal government.

Trying to step back as best I can from my own biases, I'd say a better analogy would be...

One side said "Let us amputate your leg, and we'll give you food and water to live for the next year". The other side said no.

So that first side says "Fine, you already were planning to walk a lot less. Let us break your leg and we'll give you food and water to live for the next year". The other side said "no".

Now, its entirely reasonable to still go "Well that's still a ridiculous offer and of course they should say 'no'". But it's far more in line with reality, both in terms of what's being offered and what's being asked for, then comparing an amputation to a hand shake.
This implies that your unstated assumption is that Obamacare is a good thing. It isn't. How could it be? It will be enforced by the IRS, the same people who target conservatives and patriots for harassment. Now my government will decide whether I live or die based upon my politics? "We will have you wait for three years for that life saving surgery because you are a conservative."
 
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I have to say, these low information Obama voters are incredibly stupid. Listening to some liberal radio this week, they are constantly calling in and asking why the republicans are not being arrested for extortion or terrorism or treason. As if the democrats are the only ones allowed to have an opinion on legislation. They truly believe that the State should crush opposing views, as long as it's not theirs.

I think they are confused by the fact that the House seems incapable of even the most basic jobs in Govt. KEEPING IT OPEN. Incompetence is not a crime though so maybe we should just take this job out of the Houses hands if it is too difficult for them to handle. I would bet there would be a lot of support from the people for that right about now.
 
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Re: Most would blame Republicans

Help me understand this.
What is it that the democrats are asking for, what is the "way" that they are demanding? IMHO, "their" way is simply the law...ACA was passed by congress, and upheld by the supreme court. They got their way. The money has been approved. There were endless negotiations and compromises, don't you remember how much time it took to pass it? That was negotiation and compromise. Do you believe that congress can go back and say "we don't like the law we passed, let's talk about it again...and if you don't revisit it the govt will shut down." We spent many months debating ACA, now they want to defund it in 2 or 3 days?
How is this different than Democrats saying "we weren't able to pass the gun control laws we wanted after Newtown, so we're going to attach them to a spending bill, and if it doesn't pass, the govt will shut down. Republicans must negotiate or the shutdown is their fault."
Is that not a reasonable analogy?
I honestly do not get the rationale for this being anyone's responsibility but the republicans.
Thank you.
Given this do you believe the President should be enforcing all of the immigration laws?
 
Where does the net interest end up?

A good portion of the interest is paid to creditor nations like China. And at this point the argument could be made that maybe someone should have asked China first if it was alright to shut down the government.

First, high levels of debt mean that too many of our taxpayer dollars are wasted on paying interest. This is money that could have been better spent elsewhere, by letting us all keep more of our hard-earned money or by better funding national priorities such a defense and infrastructure .

Second, when debt gets high enough or rises fast enough, capital markets do take notice and interest rates will rise. As history has shown in the past this can happen quickly with a dramatic twist. Interest rates on mortgages, car loans and credit cards would go through the roof.

Third, inflation could become a problem. As debt rises, the Federal Reserve could turn to that age-old, but dangerous tactic: printing money. This reduces the value of the debt, but it would also usher in a new age of inflation. OMG all these months of Bernanke propping up the market with all that QE well,..... at some point is is going to all come crashing down.

Fourth, high levels of debt usually translate to much lower levels of economic growth. We have certainly been experiencing that these past 4 years. According to the CBO we are running 73% of GDP, but it will hit 100% by 2038. I don't know how louder a clarion call anyone needs to show the devastation if we don't get spending in the Federal government under control.

Fifth, this is a moral issue. Running up debts and passing them on to younger generations is wrong. Enough!
 
A good portion of the interest is paid to creditor nations like China. And at this point the argument could be made that maybe someone should have asked China first if it was alright to shut down the government.

First, high levels of debt mean that too many of our taxpayer dollars are wasted on paying interest. This is money that could have been better spent elsewhere, by letting us all keep more of our hard-earned money or by better funding national priorities such a defense and infrastructure .

Second, when debt gets high enough or rises fast enough, capital markets do take notice and interest rates will rise. As history has shown in the past this can happen quickly with a dramatic twist. Interest rates on mortgages, car loans and credit cards would go through the roof.

Third, inflation could become a problem. As debt rises, the Federal Reserve could turn to an age-old, but dangerous tactic: printing money. This would reduce the value of the debt, but it would also usher in a new age of inflation. OMG all these months of Bernanke propping up the market with all that QE well, at some point is is going all come crashing down.

Fourth, high levels of debt usually translate to much lower levels of economic growth. We have certainly been experiencing that these past 4 years. According to the CBO we are running 73% of GDP, but it will hit 100% by 2038. I don't know how louder a clarion call anyone needs to show the devastation if we don't get spending in the Federal government under control.

Fifth, this is a moral issue. Running up debts and passing them on to younger generations is wrong. Enough!

The Fed owns more debt than China, and it returns 95% of the earned interest back to the Treasury...
 
The Fed owns more debt than China, and it returns 95% of the earned interest back to the Treasury...

Where does the money come from that pays that interest back to the Treasury? Where is the Treasury going to get the money to fund the SS IOU's?
 
Where does the money come from that pays that interest back to the Treasury? Where is the Treasury going to get the money to fund the SS IOU's?

It's called a circle jerk... :mrgreen: The point being is that the Fed is currently monetizing the debt...
 
It does not matter what instrument they buy, the debt accrues from it anyway. But debt does not come from revenue does it? If you are not a college graduate in economics you should stick to the CBO debt numbers. They do the math for you.

Your comments about the debt are absurd and ignorant. No matter how you parse it out - accruing debt incurs additional costs and those costs have to be paid for with either more revenue or more debt. SS debt cannot be sold to investors, so it must be paid with general fund revenues. We current ly don't have a surplus, therefore, paying SS requires borrowing for other expenditures. What do you not get about this?
 
That idiot would be me and I have called much worse by the real idiots in this thread who have no concept of leadership and understanding of personal pain and suffering from a period of time when they probably weren't even born. I don't put a lot of faith in much that you say because you simply do not have any concept of how recessions affect individuals especially a recession compounded by high inflation, high unemployment, and high interest rates. You see, you have no understanding how economic policy affects those areas and thus it is easy for you to look at the 07-09 recession as worse because we are still experiencing the effects of that recession due to zero Presidential leadership.

Continue to buy what the left elites tell you and ignore the actual economic policies and leadership that led us out of the 81-82 recession compared to the lack of leadership today because that doesn't suit your ideology and political beliefs. You want badly to believe that totally incompetent President we have today who somehow believes that bigger govt. and massive dependence somehow creates economic prosperity. A President that believes the private sector will continue to create jobs and economic growth by penalizing it with increased costs and regulations. You are part of the problem and never will be part of the solution because quite simply you live in a liberal dream world that simply doesn't exist.

The "leadership' that led us out of the 82 recession (mild by 2008 standards, really) was massive government spending... mostly on defense.

We dont have that kind of leadership in todays Congress because its run by teabaggers, who view government spending and debt wrongly as contributing to recessions. So Obama has basically had to do it without government hel (except for his stimulus, which was enough to stave off total disaster) . and government jobs have been plummeting since the end of the stimulus.
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

Like...the mandate that everyone is required to get a education? Big fat failure that one.
We completely agree here. Let's move on to the free market for education and get the government completely out of it. If we don't how can we be surprised when Americans are too dull to see the obvious dangers they have put themselves into? Voting a fraud into office once is a mistake. Twice indicates something far worse. Government schools for a hundred years and now we have a government takeover and absolute control over every American.
 
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