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Thread: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    A good portion of the interest is paid to creditor nations like China.
    Less than 1/3 of all interest is paid to foreign holders of U.S. Treasuries. On the aggregate, all money earned by foreign entities does not (typically) flow outside of the U.S.; instead, it is reinvested in U.S. dollar denominated assets.

    First, high levels of debt mean that too many of our taxpayer dollars are wasted on paying interest.
    Qualitative statement lacking substance.

    This is money that could have been better spent elsewhere, by letting us all keep more of our hard-earned money or by better funding national priorities such a defense and infrastructure .
    To a degree, i agree! However, during a financial recession and the drawn out recovery that follows, increased deficits are necessary to minimizing output gaps. At such times it is insanely beneficial for increases in deficits to flow into infrastructure investment projects; not tax breaks, as these types of expenditures yield the least amount of additional economic activity.

    Second, when debt gets high enough or rises fast enough, capital markets do take notice and interest rates will rise. As history has shown in the past this can happen quickly with a dramatic twist. Interest rates on mortgages, car loans and credit cards would go through the roof.
    More complicated than that! See our current situation for an empirical example.

    Third, inflation could become a problem. As debt rises, the Federal Reserve could turn to an age-old, but dangerous tactic: printing money. This would reduce the value of the debt, but it would also usher in a new age of inflation. OMG all these months of Bernanke propping up the market with all that QE well, at some point is is going all come crashing down.
    This comment does not even make sense. If inflation becomes a problem, why the **** would the Fed engage in expansionary monetary policy? You then go back to discuss inflation, only to again change course and make a deterministic statement with respects to a market crash.

    By the sounds of it, you have bitten off more than you can chew. It would be best to focus on one topic at a time, as you clearly lack the familiarity with these concepts necessary to properly engage in its discourse.

    Fourth, high levels of debt usually translate to much lower levels of economic growth.
    Ehh, kind of. Countries that have sustained growth in public debt, in an environment that exceeds nominal growth in output, will eventually face growth constraints as more and more of their respective economies are composed of rent-orientated income generation. Investment in production of goods and services takes second fiddle, which is damaging to long term productivity growth. However, this is not generally the case with the U.S. as our debt issues have stemmed from the financial fallout of two financial bubbles and multiple wars, as this graphic clearly depicts.

    We have certainly been experiencing that these past 4 years.
    That is what happens when the country experiences a net-wealth loss equivalent to roughly an entire year of economic growth. We have still not recovered from greatest level of wealth lost since the 1930's.

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Well then everyone should be in agreement then that increasing spending is a f'ing bad idea at this time.
    If only you had any idea how wrong you are. Had the Federal government increased spending to levels necessary to supplement a most expansionary monetary policy initiative, we wouldn't have 7.3% unemployment.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    If only you had any idea how wrong you are. Had the Federal government increased spending to levels necessary to supplement a most expansionary monetary policy initiative, we wouldn't have 7.3% unemployment.
    Yes, we would because current benefits are nearly equivalent to "holding out" for a better outcome. Spending only works when there is a credible return on the investment, and in today's environment, spending is dictated by politics, not ROI. We could greatly expand the economy be declaring the country energy independent within five years at little to no cost ot the government, but once again, politics gets in the way of doing so...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Inflation occurs when nominal GDP growth is higher than productivity growth; it's not even up for debate.

    A less-wonkish explanation of the concept can be found here.

    The author is likely to be our next Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.
    Interesting, but I don't really buy the assertion that inflation is caused by differences in rate changes of GDP and productivity.

    The problem is in how both are computed. GDP is computed by one of three ways, Production, Income, or Expenditure. (Gross domestic product - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). On the other hand, productivity is most commonly measured by GDP per hour worked.

    That gives us a simple equation Productivity = GBP / #WorkHours. So if we say that inflation is an increase in GDP without a corresponding increase in Productivity then we're saying that inflation is a decrease in hours worked for the same end.. which isn't at all the case.

    Now you might be able to do something clever using one method to compute GDP for productivity, and another to compute the GDP to compare against, but then you're essentially just obfuscating the actual relationship.

    Ffirst we need to differentiate between methods of measuring inflation and inflationary causes. There isn't 100% agreement on the causes of inflation, but the measured effect is a large swath of producers are able to demand more for goods. Since producers are going to get the highest price they can, inflation is really caused by deflections in the supply/demand curve.

    Large monopolies, market speculation, excess consumer buying power, supply shortages/natural disasters, and currency devaluations can all cause inflation.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Yes, we would because current benefits are nearly equivalent to "holding out" for a better outcome. Spending only works when there is a credible return on the investment, and in today's environment, spending is dictated by politics, not ROI. We could greatly expand the economy be declaring the country energy independent within five years at little to no cost ot the government, but once again, politics gets in the way of doing so...
    I think you missed the point of my comment; i am not claiming deficit spending in and of itself is the most efficient path. In terms of creating jobs, massive federal expenditure in the tune of $500 billion annually targeted exclusively toward infrastructure (which includes a plethora of aspects in energy efficiency) would have created millions upon millions of jobs between 2009 and 2012.

    The structural integrity of the steel bridges constructed between 1950 and 1980 are near failing. I know this intrinsically, as i was a structural protective coatings contractor prior to 2010. There were some municipalities that could only afford the most basic repairs necessary to ensure trigger points wouldn't fail, even though a complete overhaul (or new substructure in some cases) would have been by far the cheaper long term option. They just didn't have the money; and this got progressively worse from 2007 - 2009 as the recession continued to diminish revenue across all aspects of government. Such sentiment is echoed in this report.

    Deficit spending aimed at counteracting a severe economic downturn needs to be both targeted and temporary.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reagan was senile throughout most of his presidency. Fact.

    Another fact: He was shot and in the hospital 3 months after being inaugurated. Everyone who knew him at the time said he was never the same after that traumatic event. His recovery was long and slow. He had a hard time staying focused and never again was able to manage going for long without needing rest.

    Reagan's wonderful leadership is all in your head.
    And yet he won 49 out of 50 States for his second term as President. Perhaps your information wasn't available to the voters at that time.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Interesting, but I don't really buy the assertion that inflation is caused by differences in rate changes of GDP and productivity.
    It's more complicated than that, but that's the general idea.

    So if we say that inflation is an increase in GDP without a corresponding increase in Productivity then we're saying that inflation is a decrease in hours worked for the same end.. which isn't at all the case.
    Didn't you read the link???!!!! How does a company deal with a fall in productivity? If their business is expanding, they increase the price of the product sold. If their business is contracting, they devise a new business plan/strategy.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Demonizing a former deceased President is a sickness, seek help. Reagan has nothing to do with this thread topic and your comments only show your ignorance and exactly the kind of person you are. It isn't a pretty picture
    Demonizing a sitting president is a sickness, seek help. Obama has nothing to do with this thread topic and your comments only show your ignorance and exactly the kind of person you are. It isn't a pretty picture

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Demonizing a sitting president is a sickness, seek help. Obama has nothing to do with this thread topic and your comments only show your ignorance and exactly the kind of person you are. It isn't a pretty picture
    Dems pioneered that activity with their treatment of GWB.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And yet he won 49 out of 50 States for his second term as President. Perhaps your information wasn't available to the voters at that time.
    The economy was improving significantly by '84, and he ran against this dude.


    Further reading also showed that RR wasn't in that bad of shape. His dementia hit later, '87 at the earliest, and he apparently did make a full recovery from the gunshots. So...I was wrong.

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