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Thread: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

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    Re: Most would blame Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    That's really not a reasonable analogy in the least, unless you have such little disdain for the workforce of the federal government.

    Trying to step back as best I can from my own biases, I'd say a better analogy would be...

    One side said "Let us amputate your leg, and we'll give you food and water to live for the next year". The other side said no.

    So that first side says "Fine, you already were planning to walk a lot less. Let us break your leg and we'll give you food and water to live for the next year". The other side said "no".

    Now, its entirely reasonable to still go "Well that's still a ridiculous offer and of course they should say 'no'". But it's far more in line with reality, both in terms of what's being offered and what's being asked for, then comparing an amputation to a hand shake.
    This implies that your unstated assumption is that Obamacare is a good thing. It isn't. How could it be? It will be enforced by the IRS, the same people who target conservatives and patriots for harassment. Now my government will decide whether I live or die based upon my politics? "We will have you wait for three years for that life saving surgery because you are a conservative."
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 10-04-13 at 06:09 PM.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    I have to say, these low information Obama voters are incredibly stupid. Listening to some liberal radio this week, they are constantly calling in and asking why the republicans are not being arrested for extortion or terrorism or treason. As if the democrats are the only ones allowed to have an opinion on legislation. They truly believe that the State should crush opposing views, as long as it's not theirs.
    I think they are confused by the fact that the House seems incapable of even the most basic jobs in Govt. KEEPING IT OPEN. Incompetence is not a crime though so maybe we should just take this job out of the Houses hands if it is too difficult for them to handle. I would bet there would be a lot of support from the people for that right about now.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-04-13 at 05:52 PM.

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    Re: Most would blame Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by letsunite View Post
    Help me understand this.
    What is it that the democrats are asking for, what is the "way" that they are demanding? IMHO, "their" way is simply the law...ACA was passed by congress, and upheld by the supreme court. They got their way. The money has been approved. There were endless negotiations and compromises, don't you remember how much time it took to pass it? That was negotiation and compromise. Do you believe that congress can go back and say "we don't like the law we passed, let's talk about it again...and if you don't revisit it the govt will shut down." We spent many months debating ACA, now they want to defund it in 2 or 3 days?
    How is this different than Democrats saying "we weren't able to pass the gun control laws we wanted after Newtown, so we're going to attach them to a spending bill, and if it doesn't pass, the govt will shut down. Republicans must negotiate or the shutdown is their fault."
    Is that not a reasonable analogy?
    I honestly do not get the rationale for this being anyone's responsibility but the republicans.
    Thank you.
    Given this do you believe the President should be enforcing all of the immigration laws?

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Where does the net interest end up?
    A good portion of the interest is paid to creditor nations like China. And at this point the argument could be made that maybe someone should have asked China first if it was alright to shut down the government.

    First, high levels of debt mean that too many of our taxpayer dollars are wasted on paying interest. This is money that could have been better spent elsewhere, by letting us all keep more of our hard-earned money or by better funding national priorities such a defense and infrastructure .

    Second, when debt gets high enough or rises fast enough, capital markets do take notice and interest rates will rise. As history has shown in the past this can happen quickly with a dramatic twist. Interest rates on mortgages, car loans and credit cards would go through the roof.

    Third, inflation could become a problem. As debt rises, the Federal Reserve could turn to that age-old, but dangerous tactic: printing money. This reduces the value of the debt, but it would also usher in a new age of inflation. OMG all these months of Bernanke propping up the market with all that QE well,..... at some point is is going to all come crashing down.

    Fourth, high levels of debt usually translate to much lower levels of economic growth. We have certainly been experiencing that these past 4 years. According to the CBO we are running 73% of GDP, but it will hit 100% by 2038. I don't know how louder a clarion call anyone needs to show the devastation if we don't get spending in the Federal government under control.

    Fifth, this is a moral issue. Running up debts and passing them on to younger generations is wrong. Enough!

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    A good portion of the interest is paid to creditor nations like China. And at this point the argument could be made that maybe someone should have asked China first if it was alright to shut down the government.

    First, high levels of debt mean that too many of our taxpayer dollars are wasted on paying interest. This is money that could have been better spent elsewhere, by letting us all keep more of our hard-earned money or by better funding national priorities such a defense and infrastructure .

    Second, when debt gets high enough or rises fast enough, capital markets do take notice and interest rates will rise. As history has shown in the past this can happen quickly with a dramatic twist. Interest rates on mortgages, car loans and credit cards would go through the roof.

    Third, inflation could become a problem. As debt rises, the Federal Reserve could turn to an age-old, but dangerous tactic: printing money. This would reduce the value of the debt, but it would also usher in a new age of inflation. OMG all these months of Bernanke propping up the market with all that QE well, at some point is is going all come crashing down.

    Fourth, high levels of debt usually translate to much lower levels of economic growth. We have certainly been experiencing that these past 4 years. According to the CBO we are running 73% of GDP, but it will hit 100% by 2038. I don't know how louder a clarion call anyone needs to show the devastation if we don't get spending in the Federal government under control.

    Fifth, this is a moral issue. Running up debts and passing them on to younger generations is wrong. Enough!
    The Fed owns more debt than China, and it returns 95% of the earned interest back to the Treasury...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    The Fed owns more debt than China, and it returns 95% of the earned interest back to the Treasury...
    Where does the money come from that pays that interest back to the Treasury? Where is the Treasury going to get the money to fund the SS IOU's?

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where does the money come from that pays that interest back to the Treasury? Where is the Treasury going to get the money to fund the SS IOU's?
    It's called a circle jerk... The point being is that the Fed is currently monetizing the debt...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It does not matter what instrument they buy, the debt accrues from it anyway. But debt does not come from revenue does it? If you are not a college graduate in economics you should stick to the CBO debt numbers. They do the math for you.
    Your comments about the debt are absurd and ignorant. No matter how you parse it out - accruing debt incurs additional costs and those costs have to be paid for with either more revenue or more debt. SS debt cannot be sold to investors, so it must be paid with general fund revenues. We current ly don't have a surplus, therefore, paying SS requires borrowing for other expenditures. What do you not get about this?

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    CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That idiot would be me and I have called much worse by the real idiots in this thread who have no concept of leadership and understanding of personal pain and suffering from a period of time when they probably weren't even born. I don't put a lot of faith in much that you say because you simply do not have any concept of how recessions affect individuals especially a recession compounded by high inflation, high unemployment, and high interest rates. You see, you have no understanding how economic policy affects those areas and thus it is easy for you to look at the 07-09 recession as worse because we are still experiencing the effects of that recession due to zero Presidential leadership.

    Continue to buy what the left elites tell you and ignore the actual economic policies and leadership that led us out of the 81-82 recession compared to the lack of leadership today because that doesn't suit your ideology and political beliefs. You want badly to believe that totally incompetent President we have today who somehow believes that bigger govt. and massive dependence somehow creates economic prosperity. A President that believes the private sector will continue to create jobs and economic growth by penalizing it with increased costs and regulations. You are part of the problem and never will be part of the solution because quite simply you live in a liberal dream world that simply doesn't exist.
    The "leadership' that led us out of the 82 recession (mild by 2008 standards, really) was massive government spending... mostly on defense.

    We dont have that kind of leadership in todays Congress because its run by teabaggers, who view government spending and debt wrongly as contributing to recessions. So Obama has basically had to do it without government hel (except for his stimulus, which was enough to stave off total disaster) . and government jobs have been plummeting since the end of the stimulus.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Most would blame Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Like...the mandate that everyone is required to get a education? Big fat failure that one.
    We completely agree here. Let's move on to the free market for education and get the government completely out of it. If we don't how can we be surprised when Americans are too dull to see the obvious dangers they have put themselves into? Voting a fraud into office once is a mistake. Twice indicates something far worse. Government schools for a hundred years and now we have a government takeover and absolute control over every American.

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