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CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

mbig said:
They lost the original vote on on ACA,
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When you misuse a parliamentary budget process to improperly ram through a non-budget piece of legislation...well, that's not losing.

It was challenged in the UNSC as well and passed muster.
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So? Just because it is constitutional doesn't mean it is effective.

So What we have then is an Unprecedented and bizarre attempt to take the budget/country hostage on that basis: a passed Law.
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LMAO.....and please stop with the crazy hostage rhetoric. It simply demonstrates you not a right-thinking person.

Keep in mind that it's the Democrats in the Senate that for multiple years now have refused to pas actual budgets, hence, we've played with CRs...it is the Democrats fault.

Craziness
 
Re: Most would blame Republicans

TurtleDude said:
only if you were a sandinista
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Sandinista got money. He armed terrorists in Iran, trading for hostages.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Anthony60 said:
Well, I guess you thought wrong.
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Uh, no. I'm 100% correct. You are the one who is wrong.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

ItAin'tFree said:
Obamas useful idiots won't understand what you are getting at but nothing matters to them anyway except Obama.
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Reagan tripled the debt. I know you want to run from that fact. But, you can't.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:
Reagan tripled the debt. I know you want to run from that fact. But, you can't.
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He sure did creating 17 million jobs and we are paying debt service on the 1.7 trillion dollar Reagan Debt. Obama has added 6.4 trillion to the debt and created less than 2 million jobs since taking office and we are still 2 million down from when the recession began. Guess you missed those numbers in your attacks on Republicans.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:
Reagan tripled the debt. I know you want to run from that fact. But, you can't.
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Here is the chart that liberals like you want to ignore.

The recession in 81-82 was a double dip that the second leg began in mid 1981 before the Reagan economic plan was passed. Employment when the recession began was 100 million Americans. At the end of Reagan's first term it was 105 million or a 5 million increase.

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNS12000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Employment Level
Labor force status: Employed
Type of data: Number in thousands
Age: 16 years and over
Years: 1980 to 2013

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
1980 99879 99995 99713 99233 98945 98682 98796 98824 99077 99317 99545 99634
1981 99955 100191 100571 101056 101048 100298 100693 100689 100064 100378 100207 99645
1982 99692 99762 99672 99576 100116 99543 99493 99633 99504 99215 99112 99032
1983 99161 99089 99179 99560 99642 100633 101208 101608 102016 102039 102729 102996
1984 103201 103824 103967 104336 105193 105591 105435 105163 105490 105638 105972 106223
1985 106302 106555 106989 106936 106932 106505 106807 107095 107657 107847 108007 108216
1986 108887 108480 108837 108952 109089 109576 109810 110015 110085 110273 110475 110728
1987 110953 111257 111408 111794 112434 112246 112634 113057 112909 113282 113505 113793
1988 114016 114227 114037 114650 114292 114927 115060 115282 115356 115638 116100 116104
2000 136559 136598 136701 137270 136630 136940 136531 136662 136893 137088 137322 137614
2001 137778 137612 137783 137299 137092 136873 137071 136241 136846 136392 136238 136047
2002 135701 136438 136177 136126 136539 136415 136413 136705 137302 137008 136521 136426
2003 137417 137482 137434 137633 137544 137790 137474 137549 137609 137984 138424 138411
2004 138472 138542 138453 138680 138852 139174 139556 139573 139487 139732 140231 140125
2005 140245 140385 140654 141254 141609 141714 142026 142434 142401 142548 142499 142752
2006 143150 143457 143741 143761 144089 144353 144202 144625 144815 145314 145534 145970
2007 146028 146057 146320 145586 145903 146063 145905 145682 146244 145946 146595 146273
2008 146378 146156 146086 146132 145908 145737 145532 145203 145076 144802 144100 143369
2009 142153 141644 140721 140652 140250 140005 139898 139481 138810 138421 138665 138025
2010 138439 138624 138767 139296 139255 139148 139167 139405 139388 139097 139046 139295
2011 139253 139471 139643 139606 139681 139405 139509 139870 140164 140314 140771 140896
2012 141608 142019 142020 141934 142302 142448 142250 142164 142974 143328 143277 143305
2013 143322 143492 143286 143579 143898 144058 144285 144170
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I have highlighted the employment numbers at the beginning of each recession and then at the end of each first term. For you Obamabots, get someone to help you read the numbers because they aren't favorable for your "hero."

Very busy chart so let me condense it for you.

1981 recession began in July 1981 and there were 100.7 million working Americans, At the end of the Reagan first term there were 106.0 million working or a 5.3 million job gain

2001 recession began and there were 137.1 million working Americans and at the end of the Bush first term it was 140.2 or an increase of 3.1 million.

2007-2009 recession began there were 146.3 million working Americans and at the end of the Obama first term that was 143.3 million working Americans, that is a 3 million loss. So tell me, Calamity, which President has the best performance?

I could do the same with debt but then again you wouldn't understand those numbers either.
 
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Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:
Uh, no. I'm 100% correct. You are the one who is wrong.
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So, you believe we have a non American citizen as a Senator from Texas? Please explain or restate if I am misunderstanding.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
He sure did creating 17 million jobs and we are paying debt service on the 1.7 trillion dollar Reagan Debt. Obama has added 6.4 trillion to the debt and created less than 2 million jobs since taking office and we are still 2 million down from when the recession began. Guess you missed those numbers in your attacks on Republicans.
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Let's not forget that a lot of that spending was military which toppled the communist government in the former USSR. I know the libs don't like that he got rid of their shining example of what they want our government to be, but it was money well spent.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
He sure did creating 17 million jobs and we are paying debt service on the 1.7 trillion dollar Reagan Debt. Obama has added 6.4 trillion to the debt and created less than 2 million jobs since taking office and we are still 2 million down from when the recession began. Guess you missed those numbers in your attacks on Republicans.
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Did you forget that it was Bush who crashed the economy and was behind all those job losses? Funny how he's the two-term president you conservatives all want to now claim is not your own.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Anthony60 said:
So, you believe we have a non American citizen as a Senator from Texas? Please explain or restate if I am misunderstanding.
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His mom was an American Citizen in good standing. So, it doesn't really matter that he was born in Canada or that his dad was a Commie who fought for Castro.

Sad though that the GOP won't cut Obama the same slack. Maybe Dinesh D'Souza will make a movie about the sins of Cruz's father.


Yeah. I know. Fat chance. Kenyans make better targets than Cubans who now claim to be Republicans.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Anthony60 said:
Let's not forget that a lot of that spending was military which toppled the communist government in the former USSR. I know the libs don't like that he got rid of their shining example of what they want our government to be, but it was money well spent.
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Exactly, at the time it was called a "Peace Dividend" that was squandered by Clinton
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

You guys might as well save some time and just type "Republican debt good, Democratic debt bad."
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:
Did you forget that it was Bush who crashed the economy and was behind all those job losses? Funny how he's the two-term president you conservatives all want to now claim is not your own.
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That is the liberal opinion because of course the Democrats in Congress including Barney Frank and Chris Dodd had nothing to do with it. Seems you also have a problem understanding that the Democrats took total control of the Congress in January 2007 but as you have proven facts are hard for you to understand. Has to be difficult for someone as partisan as you to believe that the guy you hated the most in the world actually had better economic results than Obama and yet you want to compare Obama to Bush. Funny how you ignored that the employment numbers I posted for Reagan, Bush, and Obama were first term numbers. You see, I didn't vote for Bush in 2008 but did in 2004 and from the numbers you can see why
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Kobie said:
You guys might as well save some time and just type "Republican debt good, Democratic debt bad."
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Debt is only good if you generate a positive return on that debt. I have to believe that even you would believe that the 1.7 trillion Reagan debt that doubled GDP, created 17 million jobs, and created a peace dividend was a good return on that debt. What do we have to show for it with Obama?
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Here is the chart that liberals like you want to ignore.

The recession in 81-82 was a double dip that the second leg began in mid 1981 before the Reagan economic plan was passed. Employment when the recession began was 100 million Americans. At the end of Reagan's first term it was 105 million or a 5 million increase.



I have highlighted the employment numbers at the beginning of each recession and then at the end of each first term. For you Obamabots, get someone to help you read the numbers because they aren't favorable for your "hero."

Very busy chart so let me condense it for you.

1981 recession began in July 1981 and there were 100.7 million working Americans, At the end of the Reagan first term there were 106.0 million working or a 5.3 million job gain

2001 recession began and there were 137.1 million working Americans and at the end of the Bush first term it was 140.2 or an increase of 3.1 million.

2007-2009 recession began there were 146.3 million working Americans and at the end of the Obama first term that was 143.3 million working Americans, that is a 3 million loss. So tell me, Calamity, which President has the best performance?

I could do the same with debt but then again you wouldn't understand those numbers either.
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The recession of 2007 was the deepest recession since the Great Depression. The one in the 80's was mild.
EmployRecJuly2013.jpg


Your boy Bush nearly took the country over the edge. Obama and teh D's saved the nation. If we had followed GOP strategy in 2009, Unemployment would have reached 25%.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Debt is only good if you generate a positive return on that debt. I have to believe that even you would believe that the 1.7 trillion Reagan debt that doubled GDP, created 17 million jobs, and created a peace dividend was a good return on that debt. What do we have to show for it with Obama?
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We didn't continue careening into an economic canyon, for starters.

As far as the rest, we don't know. That "peace dividend" of which you speak didn't exist until after Reagan was out of office.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Debt is only good if you generate a positive return on that debt. I have to believe that even you would believe that the 1.7 trillion Reagan debt that doubled GDP, created 17 million jobs, and created a peace dividend was a good return on that debt. What do we have to show for it with Obama?
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Nonsense. The debt Reagan took on handcuffed this nation for decades. We're still mired in Reagan's debt.
 
If Conservative isn't working for the FreedomWorks, and he really believes this stuff, then...well, then I just gotta chuckle.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Kobie said:
We didn't continue careening into an economic canyon, for starters.

As far as the rest, we don't know. That "peace dividend" of which you speak didn't exist until after Reagan was out of office.
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So where do you think that peace dividend came from?

You really seem to have a problem understanding leadership and the responsibilities of leadership. The canyon we were in in 81-82 was much worse than the one the media told you about in 2007-2009 for you see it was compounded by high inflation and a high misery index, something the kids of today don't understand. Please show me where anything I have posted is wrong?
 
calamity said:
If Conservative isn't working for the FreedomWorks, and he really believes this stuff, then...well, then I just gotta chuckle.
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Hey, kid, chuckle away but the laugh is on you. You have been given the opportunity to prove me wrong but you continue to cite your own personal opinions backed up by nothing. I spent 35 years in the business world and am retired. I can beat you up all day with actual economic data but what is the use, you don't understand any of it.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:
Nonsense. The debt Reagan took on handcuffed this nation for decades. We're still mired in Reagan's debt.
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Oh, really? 17 million jobs, doubling of GDP, and the peace dividend handcuffed this nation? Have to shake my head with that liberal logic
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
So where do you think that peace dividend came from?

You really seem to have a problem understanding leadership and the responsibilities of leadership. The canyon we were in in 81-82 was much worse than the one the media told you about in 2007-2009 for you see it was compounded by high inflation and a high misery index, something the kids of today don't understand. Please show me where anything I have posted is wrong?
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No, it wasn't. It wasn't remotely close. Inflation is relatively easy to get under control. Hemorrhaging jobs is not.

"Misery index" is about as reliable an indicator of anything real as "unicorn rarity."
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

calamity said:
The recession of 2007 was the deepest recession since the Great Depression. The one in the 80's was mild.
EmployRecJuly2013.jpg


Your boy Bush nearly took the country over the edge. Obama and teh D's saved the nation. If we had followed GOP strategy in 2009, Unemployment would have reached 25%.
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I gave you the BLS numbers which you probably don't understand. Your chart doesn't refute anything I posted and goes all the way to 2007. I don't even think you understand what your chart shows or what you are talking about. Obviously you have no idea what leadership responsibilities are.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Kobie said:
No, it wasn't. It wasn't remotely close. Inflation is relatively easy to get under control. Hemorrhaging jobs is not.

"Misery index" is about as reliable an indicator of anything real as "unicorn rarity."
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Oh, really? do you know what the misery index was then? By all economic standards the 81-82 recession hurt Americans much worse than this one, I lived and worked during both, what is your experience? You see, you are comparing results of this recession to the results of the 81-82 recession ignoring the vacuum of leadership displayed by Obama and the leadership exhibited by Reagan.
 
Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

Conservative said:
Oh, really? do you know what the misery index was then?
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I know what the "misery index" was; I just think the "misery index" is a stupid statistic based on adding together two arbitrary, often unrelated figures.

Conservative said:
By all economic standards the 81-82 recession hurt Americans much worse than this one, I lived and worked during both, what is your experience?
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By ALL economic standards? That's a pantload if I ever saw one. We lost exponentially more jobs from the 2008-09 recession than the 81-82 one. As in, not even remotely comparable. Real GDP saw a bigger hit. Of course, then there's the entire foreclosure problem, since the cause of the 2008 recession was the bursting of the housing bubble (and all the accounting shenanigans that came with), which wasn't what caused the early 80s recession. The entire cause of that recession was overly contractionary Fed policy designed to combat inflation. I don't give a rat's ass what you lived and worked through; you don't know what you're talking about.

Conservative said:
You see, you are comparing results of this recession to the results of the 81-82 recession ignoring the vacuum of leadership displayed by Obama and the leadership exhibited by Reagan.
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Yes, Reagan flew in on his golden pegasus and singlehandedly pulled us back from ... an economic hiccup that was insignificant enough to be self-correctable. I'm certainly not saying his policies had NOTHING to do with the recovery; however, to claim that the early-80s recession was worse is asinine.
 
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