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Thread: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one said they did. They are trying to force their will outside the normal process.
    I'll never be able to convince you that congress is acting within the normal process but they really are. Everything is 100% legit. Nobody is breaking the law. Have you ever heard the term "Act of Congress"? I.E. It's takes an "Act of Congress" to roll over my 401(K) into an IRA. An act of congress is supposed to be nearly impossible. This prevents the government from overstepping their bounds and becoming tyrants. Legislation is supposed to be rare. It was set up that way on purpose. Our founding fathers would be clapping right now if they were hear to witness this circus. The public can't get screwed when the government can't get along. When they start getting along that's when we need to be worried.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Name for me a Western thriving growing economy that has debt 100% of GDP? You don't seem to understand what effect that high of a debt has on economic activity. Sure looks like nothing ever changes the mind of an Obamabot or liberal.
    Japan has debt over 200% of GDP and they are not bankrupt or in danger of default. What you don't understand is economics on a govt. scale. We will reduce deficits by growth not austerity. That is the way modern nations thrive. David Stockman is a debt worrier like you and he believes the debt is the result of bubbles and the low tax rates that he and other Republicans implemented since the 1980's. At least he is honest, even he is wrong about the need to pay the debt down.

    •The baby boom generation has unfairly benefited from bubble-finance, a 30-year explosion of debt which created temporary but unsustainable economic prosperity, and a financialization of the system through lower and lower interest rates that has massively rewarded speculation but not real investments. $60 trillion of net worth in the household sector of which $45 trillion belongs to the top 5 percent.•We need take back at least some small fraction of the great windfall for the upper 1 to 5 percent and pay down the government debt else the next generation is going to be buried paying taxes.
    David Stockman: We’re Blind to the Debt Bubble – PBS Newshour 05-30-13 « Investa

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    Re: Most would blame Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Speaking positively will certainly help but things like demonizing individual wealth creation, proposing higher taxes, ACA, regulations that stop the Keystone Pipeline and demonize coal production, regulations that discourage right to work states to bring in non union businesses certainly don't help.
    I don't disagree with anything you said there honestly minus the Keystone Pipeline. The pipeline is AWFUL for the United States. The oil doesn't even stay in America. This thread isn't about Keystone though, so I won't ramble on :P
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    Re: Let's get back to our Constitutional Basis

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    There were only three things the federal government may tax us for. The first two are to pay our debts and to provide for the common defense. This does not say we can bankrupt the nation and its taxpayers for every silly idea someone in the federal government has.

    Let's get back to basics. It is time to begin eliminating every government program that doesn't logically and directly result from one of the enumerated powers. Social security and Medicare have no constitutional basis. It is time to end them. The EPA has no basis. Education. No basis. There are nearly 500 independent agencies today. Most of them have no constitutional basis for their existence. It is time to shed them.
    Nixon created the EPA in response to massive pollution problems that cropped up from lack of regulation. The idea that we will go back to polluted rivers and air because we "can't afford it" is a prime example of your sides dinosaur status. We will cut our military to the bone long before we even think of cuts like that. Spending more on Defense than all other nations combined is not sustainable. I think even the need for a "standing army" is questionable.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Japan has debt over 200% of GDP and they are not bankrupt or in danger of default. What you don't understand is economics on a govt. scale. We will reduce deficits by growth not austerity. That is the way modern nations thrive. David Stockman is a debt worrier like you and he believes the debt is the result of bubbles and the low tax rates that he and other Republicans implemented since the 1980's. At least he is honest, even he is wrong about the need to pay the debt down.
    1. I've heard this assertion mainly coming from the Right (growth claim) but the numbers just don't support it. The historic average federal revenue of ~18% of GDP just doesn't come close to closing the deficit even with double digit GDP growth.

    2. Didn't Clinton reduce CG rates AND Republicans in Congress demand spending cuts (austerity) in the '90's to produce the budget surplus?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sorry but that is a lie, public debt plus intergovt. holdings exceed 100% of our yearly GDP

    Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

    I am sure that France is more in turn with your economic model of high taxes and low economic growth

    Taxation in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And I am sure you would love paying $8 a gallon for gasoline. Those of you that believe socialism is free are sadly mistaken
    Isn't it fun to build strawman?
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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Japan has debt over 200% of GDP and they are not bankrupt or in danger of default. What you don't understand is economics on a govt. scale. We will reduce deficits by growth not austerity. That is the way modern nations thrive. David Stockman is a debt worrier like you and he believes the debt is the result of bubbles and the low tax rates that he and other Republicans implemented since the 1980's. At least he is honest, even he is wrong about the need to pay the debt down.



    David Stockman: We’re Blind to the Debt Bubble – PBS Newshour 05-30-13 « Investa
    Do you really want to compare this country to Japan? Inflation in Japan is rampant. What is it about liberalism that creates ignorance of what is going on in the world. Trying to justify 100% debt to GDP ration? that just goes to who how little you really know. It is one thing to have debt of 50-60% GDP and generate the kind of results someone like Reagan generated or 100% debt to GDP ratio with the results Obama has generated. You see at least with strong economic growth and job creation there is a chance to pay down that debt

    How does the Obama economic policies promote growth?

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    I'll never be able to convince you that congress is acting within the normal process but they really are. Everything is 100% legit. Nobody is breaking the law. Have you ever heard the term "Act of Congress"? I.E. It's takes an "Act of Congress" to roll over my 401(K) into an IRA. An act of congress is supposed to be nearly impossible. This prevents the government from overstepping their bounds and becoming tyrants. Legislation is supposed to be rare. It was set up that way on purpose. Our founding fathers would be clapping right now if they were hear to witness this circus. The public can't get screwed when the government can't get along. When they start getting along that's when we need to be worried.

    vasuderatorrent
    I think you're misusing the term. Nearly anything congress does is an act of congress. However, in your context this is usually where a law is either going to be declared unconstitutional by the SCOTUS, or is not being signed by the president. What the house has done never got past the Senate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Isn't it fun to build strawman?
    No, actually it is fun making people like you look foolish.

    Debt to GDP
    Public debt-71%
    Intergovt. holdings 29%

    Total 100%

    How has Obama addressed this problem and what economic policies has he put into place to stimulate growth?

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    Re: Most would blame Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I don't disagree with anything you said there honestly minus the Keystone Pipeline. The pipeline is AWFUL for the United States. The oil doesn't even stay in America. This thread isn't about Keystone though, so I won't ramble on :P
    Totally understand but the question was about creating jobs and how the govt. affects job creation. Keystone Pipeline delays is one example. The people of Nebraska want it so why does a bureaucrat in D.C. have any say?

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