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Thread: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176:468]

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    one of the most moronic arguments is to try to dismiss a philosophical argument with appeals to voting numbers.
    Why do you think his argument is moronic?? Any rational person with an ounce of intelligence knows that there was no better person to direct the course of this nation in his time than FDR. Of course, he'll always be overshadowed by Nixon, whose electoral results practically guaranteed four years of excellent decision-making:

    1972-electoral-map.jpg

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I'm not sure kids give a **** about this **** in DC..
    Once they go to College, some are all in..
    But in anti-voting states, 17-YO are now prevented from pre-registering before their birthday, falling after the register date in these states..
    College kids are being prevented from even voting from the dorms, a non-domicile..
    This anti-VRA is all part of this TEAt revolution that has the govt. closed.
    Yeah. A GOP strategy is to keep the young dumb...probably prefer to hook 'em on the vacuous Miley Cyrus instead of someone sharp like the host of Democracy Now.

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    Re: Most would blame Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Actually, it's an analysis by one of the better health economists I know. He's a physician and is published pretty widely on the subject. Most of those articles are paywalled, but the blog has similar, cogent info.
    He sounds like a knowledgable guy... perhaps this stuff is a bit outside his area of expertise. Mortality rates are fairly meaningless without knowing the respective rates of incidence. For example, he gives the US rating a big hit due to the number of lung cancer deaths, saying that fewer people smoke in the US than in other G8 countries. Maybe now... but lung cancer develops over decades. Had he taken a few seconds to research, he'd have seen that the incidence of lung cancer in this country is much higher than in other countries, and we are (if anything) more successful at treating it - the opposite of what he's able to conclude from limited data.

    Still, any decent statistician would even question comparisons based on survival rates because there are just way too many other variables that could account for differences other than the healthcare they receive (genetic differences, cultural differences, cohort differences, age at diagnosis, stage at diagnosis, etc.). It's very hard to find a decent comparison of quality of care because it's very hard and very expensive to conduct decent research.
    Last edited by Taylor; 10-12-13 at 02:27 AM.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Why do you think his argument is moronic?? Any rational person with an ounce of intelligence knows that there was no better person to direct the course of this nation in his time than FDR. Of course, he'll always be overshadowed by Nixon, whose electoral results practically guaranteed four years of excellent decision-making:

    1972-electoral-map.jpg
    opinion noted and rejected. FDR used the crisis to destroy the bounds on the federal government and to allow the foundation for the welfare socialist state. Nixon did not alter the fundamental jurisprudential fabric of the country like FDR did.



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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    opinion noted and rejected.
    Well I should hope so! Did I forget the sarcasm tag?

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    Re: Most would blame Republicans

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    He sounds like a knowledgable guy... perhaps this stuff is a bit outside his area of expertise. Mortality rates are fairly meaningless without knowing the respective rates of incidence. For example, he gives the US rating a big hit due to the number of lung cancer deaths, saying that fewer people smoke in the US than in other G8 countries. Maybe now... but lung cancer develops over decades. Had he taken a few seconds to research, he'd have seen that the incidence of lung cancer in this country is much higher than in other countries, and we are (if anything) more successful at treating it - the opposite of what he's able to conclude from limited data.

    Still, any decent statistician would even question comparisons based on survival rates because there are just way too many other variables that could account for differences other than the healthcare they receive (genetic differences, cultural differences, cohort differences, age at diagnosis, stage at diagnosis, etc.). It's very hard to find a decent comparison of quality of care because it's very hard and very expensive to conduct decent research.
    Well, I haven't seen any articles you've written for JAMA, so I think I'll take Aaron Carroll's opinion over yours.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yes I have. having studied constitutional law for 3 decades I am fully aware of the damage FDR and his administration did to the boundaries that were placed on what was supposed to be a limited federal government.
    Your argument - ar at least the argument you are repeating that others made long before you - has been thoroughly rejected by both the Congress of the United States and the Presidents of the United States over the last seventy years. And it never gained any ground with the US Supreme Court either.
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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Well I should hope so! Did I forget the sarcasm tag?
    serves me right for posting before the caffeine kicks in



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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your argument - ar at least the argument you are repeating that others made long before you - has been thoroughly rejected by both the Congress of the United States and the Presidents of the United States over the last seventy years. And it never gained any ground with the US Supreme Court either.
    ah a silly appeal to authority. If you want to say that congress and presidents are always right we will remember that. I note you have never been able to fashion a rational argument that what the FDR court did was proper based either on the obvious intent of the USC or the existing precedent at the time



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    Re: CNN Poll: GOP would bear the brunt of shutdown blame [W:176]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ah a silly appeal to authority.
    Actually its an appeal to historical and legal reality. REALITY. More than seventy years of everyday political, legal and governmental reality.

    REALITY. A fundamental concept that all must either live with or create an alternate reality in another world other than the one rational people live in.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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