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Ted Cruz launches faux filibuster as Senate readies spending bill vote

Threegoofs said:
You seem to miss the point that he wasn't ALLOWED to filibuster.. This the concept of a fake filibuster. What he did was just delay debate and screw his own party. Oh....and the US taxpayer, who will have to pay for this shutdown.
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Really? I watched some of that late night when I got home...How many other Congressmen were there at 2:30 am? I didn't see any....Delayed debate? Nah....That's a lie.
 
j-mac said:
Really? I watched some of that late night when I got home...How many other Congressmen were there at 2:30 am? I didn't see any....Delayed debate? Nah....That's a lie.
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Its not a lie. But its probably not entirely accurate. I think they had 30 hours scheduled for debate. Cruz just took it all. There was no delay because Reid cut him off when he planned the vote.
 
Conservative said:
No, individual responsibility best left to the states to handle if the people of the state to choose to do so.

It is the individuals in the states that decide whether or not to require state initiated UHC

I prefer competitive solutions to the healthcare problem and people making their own choices. that isn't the case with Obamacare

We are a govt. of the people where that govt. is closest to the people. Our Founders put the power at the state level, liberals are forcing it at the Federal level and that is only creating greater power and dependence.
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I understand what you're saying, and agree to a degree. The problem is, when it comes to health care, we can say that it isn't a right all we want, but still no one is willing to let the accident victim bleed out in the street for lack of ability to pay. I for one would not want to live in a society that would do so. Therefore, the question becomes one of how best to pay for the uninsured, the indigent, the irresponsible.

Moreover, the current system, before Obamacare, discourages people from striking out on their own in a small business. If you're a cog in the giant corporate structure, then you can be a part of a group insurance. If you're on your own, you can not. Up to Obamacare, people with pre existing conditions could not get covered. Now they can. Before, there was no way to become a part of a group unless you were an employee. Now, you can.

Obamacare is a long way from perfect, it is far too expensive, but it may prove to be better than the system we used to have.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I understand what you're saying, and agree to a degree. The problem is, when it comes to health care, we can say that it isn't a right all we want, but still no one is willing to let the accident victim bleed out in the street for lack of ability to pay. I for one would not want to live in a society that would do so. Therefore, the question becomes one of how best to pay for the uninsured, the indigent, the irresponsible.

Moreover, the current system, before Obamacare, discourages people from striking out on their own in a small business. If you're a cog in the giant corporate structure, then you can be a part of a group insurance. If you're on your own, you can not. Up to Obamacare, people with pre existing conditions could not get covered. Now they can. Before, there was no way to become a part of a group unless you were an employee. Now, you can.

Obamacare is a long way from perfect, it is far too expensive, but it may prove to be better than the system we used to have.
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Name for me one federally initiated program designed to solve a social program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and went away? All you have to do is look at the original cost of Social Security and Medicare to see what Obamacare is going to be in a number of years. Cost too much? LOL, what an understatement.
 
Conservative said:
Name for me one federally initiated program designed to solve a social program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem and went away? All you have to do is look at the original cost of Social Security and Medicare to see what Obamacare is going to be in a number of years. Cost too much? LOL, what an understatement.
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I don't think anyone expects it to go away, except, perhaps for Ted Cruz. No, Obamacare is here to stay, and yes, it's going to be expensive.

But, then, the system we had before was already the most expensive in the world by far.


We could talk ideology and alternative plans, could probably come up with something that would be a lot less expensive than the health care system of the USA either before or after Obamacare. The devil is in getting it passed.

What we have is a compromise that no one is really happy with.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I don't think anyone expects it to go away, except, perhaps for Ted Cruz. No, Obamacare is here to stay, and yes, it's going to be expensive.

But, then, the system we had before was already the most expensive in the world by far.


We could talk ideology and alternative plans, could probably come up with something that would be a lot less expensive than the health care system of the USA either before or after Obamacare. The devil is in getting it passed.

What we have is a compromise that no one is really happy with.
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Do you realize that no one has actually laid out the costs of American healthcare to see why it is so expensive vs. the world. Any idea why? Don't you think that should be the first step in reducing costs, identifying them? There is no compromise unless you do what the Democrats want. Exempting various sections of the economy from the program isn't compromise. The bottomline should be that there are no exemptions for anyone.
 
Threegoofs said:
Its not a lie. But its probably not entirely accurate. I think they had 30 hours scheduled for debate. Cruz just took it all. There was no delay because Reid cut him off when he planned the vote.
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If it wasn't entirely accurate as you say, then why'd you try to get away with saying it? Look, Cruz didn't disrupt anything, he has the right to take the floor, and was not in violation of any rules, also, knew the time in which he would yield to return the floor to the Senate.

Liberals are just mad because y'all thought that you wouldn't even have to talk about HC during this, and that you'd once again be able to cow the House into whatever y'all wanted, with such a weak SotH in place....Well, Cruz brought attention to this law, and its flaws, as well as controlled the news cycle for that time....I think it was great.

This sure let's us all know how libs will start the crying when they lose power in 2014.
 
Conservative said:
Do you realize that no one has actually laid out the costs of American healthcare to see why it is so expensive vs. the world. Any idea why? Don't you think that should be the first step in reducing costs, identifying them? There is no compromise unless you do what the Democrats want. Exempting various sections of the economy from the program isn't compromise. The bottomline should be that there are no exemptions for anyone.
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I'm sure that laying out the costs and analyzing why we have the most expensive healthcare in the world would have been a logical first step.
When does the government ever do anything in a logical way?

Anyway, the purpose of Obamacare is not to reduce costs (unfortunately), but only to increase access to health care.

As for doing what the Democrats want, just what do the Republicans want to do? I haven't seen any realistic measures to cut costs proposed by them, either.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I'm sure that laying out the costs and analyzing why we have the most expensive healthcare in the world would have been a logical first step.
When does the government ever do anything in a logical way?

Anyway, the purpose of Obamacare is not to reduce costs (unfortunately), but only to increase access to health care.
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As for doing what the Democrats want, just what do the Republicans want to do? I haven't seen any realistic measures to cut costs proposed by them, either.
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Given how the law is written, what you're really saying, intentionally or not, is that Obama is using healthcare as a big guzzling expensive vehicle for redistribution.
 
bubbabgone said:
Given how the law is written, what you're really saying, intentionally or not, is that Obama is using healthcare as a big guzzling expensive vehicle for redistribution.
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Not necessarily. I'm not so sure that the overall cost of health care will go up under Obamacare, but it will be easier to get health insurance. Since more people will be insured, t he cost of caring for the indigent should go down, thus mitigating the cost. Costs could go up some, but t hen, they've been going up faster than the rate of inflation for quite some time now.

My objection is that nothing is being done to rein in those costs, not that more people will have access to medical care. Eventually, this issue will have to be revisited. Let's hope that by that time at least some the current bunch of clowns occupying the halls of Congress will have been sent back home.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Not necessarily. I'm not so sure that the overall cost of health care will go up under Obamacare, but
it will be easier to get health insurance
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. Since
more people will be insured,
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t he cost of caring for the indigent should go down, thus mitigating the cost. Costs could go up some, but t hen, they've been going up faster than the rate of inflation for quite some time now.

My objection is that nothing is being done to rein in those costs, not that more people will have access to medical care. Eventually, this issue will have to be revisited. Let's hope that by that time at least some the current bunch of clowns occupying the halls of Congress will have been sent back home.
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Easier to get insurance? Maybe ... but you don't even know if your doctor will be in the exchange you sign up for and there are stories that doctors are already bailing on their practice. I'm also anxious to see if Obamacare tells everyone what their premiums AND deductibles will be under whatever level plan they choose.

I think you'll find, depending on your age and income level, that your premiums and deductibles are going to go up a lot more than you think and your subsidy, if you get any, won't cover it.
Furthermore ... think about it, somebody is going to have to pay for your and everyone else's subsidies either through taxes or an huge increase in newly insured youngsters who may or may not enroll in Obamacare.
Now ... the indigent have no money so they will almost entirely be depending on you to pay for their policy.
 
Conservative said:
Do you realize that no one has actually laid out the costs of American healthcare to see why it is so expensive vs. the world. Any idea why? Don't you think that should be the first step in reducing costs, identifying them? There is no compromise unless you do what the Democrats want. Exempting various sections of the economy from the program isn't compromise. The bottomline should be that there are no exemptions for anyone.
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The only alternative that i have heard about involved knocking down state borders for families to shop for insurance. Thats essentially what BOCare does but with a mandate.Do you have any healthcare updates from the party of NO that you would like to share with us?:2wave:

Here is an image if it sticks.And a link if not that you might be interested in.:2wave:

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https://twitter.com/SenatorReid/status/384826839350251520/photo/1
 
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Conservative said:
Do you realize that no one has actually laid out the costs of American healthcare to see why it is so expensive vs. the world. Any idea why? Don't you think that should be the first step in reducing costs, identifying them? There is no compromise unless you do what the Democrats want. Exempting various sections of the economy from the program isn't compromise. The bottomline should be that there are no exemptions for anyone.
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Good evening, conservative. :2wave:

:agree: Where did this very unfair "exemption" bright idea come from? Obamacare is the law of the land, as we are constantly being reminded. It is NOT an option! How can anyone be exempt from following a law? :confused: How is the IRS going to treat these "exemptables," while fining everyone else that chooses not to comply? This should be interesting! :wow:
 
Dittohead not! said:
I'm sure that laying out the costs and analyzing why we have the most expensive healthcare in the world would have been a logical first step.
When does the government ever do anything in a logical way?

Anyway, the purpose of Obamacare is not to reduce costs (unfortunately), but only to increase access to health care.

As for doing what the Democrats want, just what do the Republicans want to do? I haven't seen any realistic measures to cut costs proposed by them, either.
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Exactly right, when does the govt. ever do anything logically or cost effectively? Do you realize how much money you would have today had you simply been forced to put your SS "contributions into a simple savings account for 35 years and it would be your money? What Obamacare does it give the bureaucrats more money to spend, more power, and create havoc with our healthcare system overburdening our already over used ER's.

I don't understand why people have such confidence in the Federal Govt. doing anything well
 
Donc said:
The only alternative that i have heard about involved knocking down state borders for families to shop for insurance. Thats essentially what BOCare does but with a mandate.Do you have any healthcare updates from the party of NO that you would like to share with us?:2wave:

Here is an image if it sticks.And a link if not that you might be interested in.:2wave:

1


https://twitter.com/SenatorReid/status/384826839350251520/photo/1
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There have been a number of good proposals submitted by the GOP but neither Obama or the media have reported those programs. It serves no purpose to discuss them now. The point remains, there is nothing that the federal Govt. does that is efficient, cost effective, and provides better quality. All you get with Obamacare is maybe improved access but certainly not improved service or quality. The govt. has another source of funding to waste.

Please explain why anyone would believe anything from Harry Reid?
 
Conservative said:
Do you realize that no one has actually laid out the costs of American healthcare to see why it is so expensive vs. the world. Any idea why? Don't you think that should be the first step in reducing costs, identifying them? There is no compromise unless you do what the Democrats want. Exempting various sections of the economy from the program isn't compromise. The bottomline should be that there are no exemptions for anyone.
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LOL. I've read dozens of papers showing why US healthcare is the most expensive in the world. I guess you haven't.

Most of them point out flaws that the ACA addresses. I'd explain. But I won't bother, since you seem not to have nothered to read up on the fundamental issues in health care...
 
polgara said:
Good evening, conservative. :2wave:

:agree: Where did this very unfair "exemption" bright idea come from? Obamacare is the law of the land, as we are constantly being reminded. It is NOT an option! How can anyone be exempt from following a law? :confused: How is the IRS going to treat these "exemptables," while fining everyone else that chooses not to comply? This should be interesting! :wow:
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Exactly, don't think Donc realizes what you are saying here. Obama has exempted campaign contributors from Obamacare yet says he won't compromise with Republicans. Compromise to a liberal means doing exactly what they want. Since Obamacare is the law of the land there should be NO exemptions including Congress.
 
Threegoofs said:
LOL. I've read dozens of papers showing why US healthcare is the most expensive in the world. I guess you haven't.

Most of them point out flaws that the ACA addresses. I'd explain. But I won't bother, since you seem not to have nothered to read up on the fundamental issues in health care...
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Obviously you have no idea what those article said. We have the toughest drug regulations in the world, very expensive malpractice insurance and a liberal court system that should force the plaintiff to pay all legal bills if they lose, tight regulations on insurance companies and their ability to cross state lines but of course I am sure those weren't considered by you in analyzing the expenses.

You want badly to buy what you are told but have done little research on even the MA program. All Obamacare does is give people access not service or quality. If forces people to do what they may not want to do and it certainly doesn't guarantee that you can keep your doctor or healthcare program. Obama lies to you and you ignore the lies.
 
bubbabgone said:
Given how the law is written, what you're really saying, intentionally or not, is that Obama is using healthcare as a big guzzling expensive vehicle for redistribution.
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Are you talking about the subsidies?
 
Conservative said:
All Obamacare does is give people access not service or quality.
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People have died because they didn't have access. The Affordable Care Act does a lot of other things too btw.
If it wasn't for Individual and company mandates then ACA would probably be a fine enough law. Instead of voting to repeal the ACA 40 times maybe Republicans should have been negotiating with the Dems to get those portions removed? Now on the 11th hour Republicans have backed themselves into a corner.
 
reinoe said:
People have died because they didn't have access. The Affordable Care Act does a lot of other things too btw.
If it wasn't for Individual and company mandates then ACA would probably be a fine enough law. Instead of voting to repeal the ACA 40 times maybe Republicans should have been negotiating with the Dems to get those portions removed? Now on the 11th hour Republicans have backed themselves into a corner.
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So you believe it is the responsibility of the Federal Govt. to mandate personal choice issues? From what I can see here is the effects of media brainwashing and omission. You see there have been numerous proposals submitted by the GOP for healthcare reform but none of them reported in your media. You therefore choose to believe what Obama tells you ignoring the fact that Obama has yet to be accurate on any prediction or proposal he has submitted. All cost more than intended and do less than intended, i.e. Stimulus

But just in case you don't understand what is going on here is a pretty good analysis of healthcare costs in this country. By the way healthcare is a personal responsibility not a Federal Govt. responsibility. In addition the people of Nevada do not fund the uninsured in TX nor should they therefore why do we need a Federal Program?

Why Are U.S. Health Care Costs So High? - Forbes
 
As midnight past a few moments ago, I am watching the delusional Harry Reed calling the Tea Party anarchists and saying that we have to go along with him because Obama won his election last November. Really? Did he notice who won they House? The Tea Party wants the Constitution followed, so I guess the founding fathers are also anarchists, since they wrote it. The misinformation spewed by the left during this is disgusting.

And how is it that the republicans are shutting down the government when Obama has already declared that he will not negotiate?
 
Conservative said:
So you believe it is the responsibility of the Federal Govt. to mandate personal choice issues?
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My goodness, somebody is having trouble with reading today.

If it wasn't for Individual and company mandates then ACA would probably be a fine enough law.
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If you can't read and comprehend one paragraph on this forum I highly doubt you could read and comprehend the legislation that you're pissing and moaning about. And you're doing a lot of inane projection, claiming I believe everything Obama tells me. I don't agree with a lot of what Obama says, but it's people like you that are part of the problem.
 
reinoe said:
My goodness, somebody is having trouble with reading today.


If you can't read and comprehend one paragraph on this forum I highly doubt you could read and comprehend the legislation that you're pissing and moaning about. And you're doing a lot of inane projection, claiming I believe everything Obama tells me. I don't agree with a lot of what Obama says, but it's people like you that are part of the problem.
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You are right, misread your post, my apology however I don't believe it is the role of the Federal Govt. to offer a healthcare program to the American people. Healthcare is a personal choice and a Federal program isn't needed, just get the govt. out of the way
 
Conservative said:
Obviously you have no idea what those article said. We have the toughest drug regulations in the world, very expensive malpractice insurance and a liberal court system that should force the plaintiff to pay all legal bills if they lose, tight regulations on insurance companies and their ability to cross state lines but of course I am sure those weren't considered by you in analyzing the expenses.

You want badly to buy what you are told but have done little research on even the MA program. All Obamacare does is give people access not service or quality. If forces people to do what they may not want to do and it certainly doesn't guarantee that you can keep your doctor or healthcare program. Obama lies to you and you ignore the lies.
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LOL!
The US does not have the toughest drug regulations in the world. You probably never heard of the EMEA or CHMP. Obamacare, however, might do a bit more of this in catching up with Europe in requiring comparative trials for new drugs. But that's going into the weeds...

Malpractice insurance and settlements contribute about 5% of total HC costs. Tort reform in Texas hasn't seemed to affect costs there at all, and only mildly brought down malpractice premiums.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/malpractice-reform-in-texas-a-review/


Selling insurance across State lines is a ridiculous idea championed only by those who don't understand insurance, risk pools, and health care, or those who are willing to give up States rights over regulation.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/w...nsurance-across-state-lines-will-lower-costs/

The rest of your post are conclusions built on a foundation of misunderstanding.
 
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