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One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

It goes way beyond health care and the intent isn't even health care......

I love how progressives believe Obama gives a **** about them.

If Obama gives progressives free health care so they can file malpractice suits on demand while they get their free cell pbone and free food along with their social workers and gumbint "whatever they can get" nonsense will they support democrats?

Will they support typical educated voters who want that **** gone?

I suppose every pogressive believes they're in the minority or too smart, hence knows whats best for everyone else.

I suppose my last statement is the truth...

Oh yeah you hate my ilk but want to "help" my ilk.... Yeah hard to believe...
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

finebead said:
It is not just the fault of the govt., it is also the fault of the greedy leaders of the healthcare industry who are raping the nation. Why do you give them a pass, when a hip transplant here would run $100K and you can get the same thing in Belgium for $13K?

This administration is the only one that has stepped up to healthcare reform. Why haven't the repubs, they held all of congress from 1994-2006, with the white house from 2001-2008? I don't think Obamacare is the best system possible, but I view it as a step in the right direction, and it cured the worst problems of health insurance, the ability of the ins. company to reject sick customers, and the ability to drop paying customers who got seriously ill. Nobody else stepped up to that, and for that I give the dems credit.
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Here's a great defense of the law, and more importantly the purpose of the law:

Obamacare Exchanges Start Tuesday, Oct. 1. Here's Why They're Worth It | New Republic
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

TheNextEra said:
Wow, one case? Well, we should just scrap it all then and any other bill that affects one person negatively. I mean we can't have any bills that affect ANYONE negatively now can we?

In all seriousness, I don't like Obamacare and think it should be scrapped, but not for the reason that is listed in your article. NO program in it's history has not had the record of being perfectly positive to EVERYONE.
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I love your response. Even people who oppose the law should understand how to oppose it correctly, and not use one or two individual stories to build a case off of. Also, fun story, I actually had a Facebook friend "de-friend" me for literally stating what you just said to them when they posted a similar OP on their FB wall.
 
Mr.Nick said:
It goes way beyond health care and the intent isn't even health care......

I love how progressives believe Obama gives a **** about them.

If Obama gives progressives free health care so they can file malpractice suits on demand while they get their free cell pbone and free food along with their social workers and gumbint "whatever they can get" nonsense will they support democrats?

Will they support typical educated voters who want that **** gone?

I suppose every pogressive believes they're in the minority or too smart, hence knows whats best for everyone else.

I suppose my last statement is the truth...

Oh yeah you hate my ilk but want to "help" my ilk.... Yeah hard to believe...
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Actually, I'd settle for your "ilk" to just stop with your hyperbolic nonsense.
 
Time for some fog of WAR!
 
Kobie said:
“But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”

Pretty obvious what she meant here.
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Yea "The fog of controversy" being open and honest debate

How easily fooled you are
 
Bronson said:
Yea "The fog of controversy" being open and honest debate

How easily fooled you are
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There hasn't been a moment of "open and honest" debate. That's not how Congress operates. The Republicans and Democrats are both liars.
 
Chickens lay eggs.
Bunnies hide eggs.
Are bunnies stealing eggs from chickens and hiding them?
Are chickens aware of this?
Who's defending the rights of the chickens?!
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Crossroads said:
I love your response. Even people who oppose the law should understand how to oppose it correctly, and not use one or two individual stories to build a case off of. Also, fun story, I actually had a Facebook friend "de-friend" me for literally stating what you just said to them when they posted a similar OP on their FB wall.
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Ah but there are thousands of stories like that...Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Navy Pride said:
Ah but there are thousands of stories like that...Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
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Then show that. If you can I mean.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Boo Radley said:
Then show that. If you can I mean.
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What? "Thousands of stories"? Let's agree that anecdotal on either side of the argument are largely useless. So we should stick to the facts, and to date, the over ridding fact is that this law is not ready to be implemented, and to say that we need to just put it in place, and fix it later, is a dumb way of enacting anything.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Apologies for the late response, wife wanted to have a yardsale this weekend, but has a really bad back, so I've been the hired help for the last 3-4 days.


jmotivator said:
Wrong. This is a specious argument. The system works quite well. It really only came into its own in the last 15 years or so. What it results in is FAR less work for me and my family. Regular medical bills don't go through a third party insurer any more. I pay on the spot with a check card linked to my HSA. The doctors charge me less because they don't have to navigate the paperwork of the third party insurer and the money goes directly to their business within 24 hours rather than 3 months, simplifying the accounting.
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I think you might have misunderstood me here. I was saying that this system, which works so well for you and many others, might as well not exist for most Americans because they're unaware of it. And the odds that they'll suddenly start looking into their full range of options is slim to none. Either lazyness or intimidation can be to blame, but the end result is obvious. People want auto-pilot healthcare. A competitive marketplace won't happen in healthcare without some big changes, first and foremost being a way for average lazy/intimidated Americans to price shop, which would require some system where one can view the prices on procedures/visits/etc. without having to have the procedure/visit/etc and see what the bill is. One thing the health insurance through employers system has encouraged is this very lazyness/intimidation factor. You get hired, take whatever plan they offer (theres almost always 1 choice in insurer, even if different plans are available, which they usualy aren't). At no point does initiative on the part of the consumer pay off under that system. So people are either intimidated by a huge system that they know little to nothing about, or are comfortable with their auto-pilot healthcare that they don't have to worry about ever.

BUT WHY IS THIS MY PROBLEM?! Why do you insist on making things LESS functional and MORE intrusive because people people don't know any better? Criminey, your theorized problem could have been solved far cheaper with a few PSAs.

You make a system to cater to the idiots and what you end up with is an idiotic system.

This is what we face with the ACA.
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That's part of my point is that the laziness issue, which I feel is part of most of the larger problems with our healthcare system, could have been resolved with much less time, money, and effort than the ACA took.

We are, unfortunately, a nation made up of a majority of idiots, and they will drag us all down if we let them. Its possible to design a system that caters to them without the system itself being idiotic.

I would be all for a republican version of the ACA, or at least give it a chance, but lets be honest here. The odds of saturn turning into a new sun and developing its own solar system are greater than a GOP sponsored healthcare overhaul. I'd really like to see republicans take an active role in revising and improving the ACA, but that would require them admitting it was needed, and helping something with obamas name on it succeed, both of which are cardinal sins.


This is a very silly argument. Limiting my choice is limiting my choice. Just because I am left with a few far inferior choices doesn't make up for the fact that I can't choose what I actually want.




I. DON'T. WANT. THOSE. PLANS. How the hell else can I explain this to you? I had a choice of what I want, now I don't. You aren't going to be able to spin that into no loss of choice.

You like walking out of your house and not having your wallet stolen.... I put Guido and Furio on your porch to take your wallet from you when you leave your house. By your argument I have not really infringed on your rights because you can still walk out of your house.
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Fair enough. It is still a loss of choice, and the particular choice you favor at that. I can't downplay that and remain intellectually honest. I suppose I've accepted that some restrictions will be necessary, but this particular one will affect you far more than me.


They offered several alternative bills during the process of writing the ACA and none of them were incorporated. They have offered since then several bills to change ACA to a more open system that doesn't eliminate Catastrophic plans for people over 30, and allows for the kinds of HSAs that existed before the ACA and get no traction.

Face it, the Democrats passed a sh*t bill that you now challenge the Republicans to fix, and fault them for not fixing it. The problem is that IT WAS A SH*T BILL and shouldn't have been passed in the first place. Putting the onus on Republicans to clean up the Democrats bowel movement is absurd.
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I took a few minutes to google this (for what its worth), and the only thing I found under republican alternatives to obamacare was a whole lot of headlines from sept. 18, 2013 (~2 weeks ago). A proposal from the Republican Study Committee that would replace the ACA with the American Health Care Reform Act. It looks attractive in that it addresses some of the bigger issues most have with obamacare. No mandates, HSA and catastrophic plans allowed, tax deductions (20k for families, 7500 for individuals) for people who buy their own plans (employers get a similar deduction for their employees insurance), insurance over state lines, and probably more. What it doesn't do: coverage for your children until age 26, get rid of pre-existing conditions, anything for the poor who can't afford insurance (ERs still have to treat them though), and probably more. It also would have the government subsidize high risk pools, and no price tag was given. Better? Worse? It looks like the answer to both of those questions is yes. My biggest criticism of the right over this is that ~40 attempts to repeal the ACA were made before this was developed and proposed. This alternative should have been on the table at least a year ago. The best chance republicans have to repeal the ACA is a working, fully developed alternative.

House conservatives back 'Obamacare' alternative

House Republicans file, promote an alternative to Obamacare - Washington Times

No, because what I and many many others want is effectively the abolishment of all of the onerous regulations and fees that the ACA dumped on us and our families. I choose what is good for me and my family, but that isn't the choice necessarily for another person. Essentially what I want is the granular freedom for everyone to do what they believe is best for them and theirs, and all of us, in different ways, are denied that. We need a more granular system, now a menu with four equally sh*tty options.
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I'm all for ideas, alternatives, and improvements from the right. The fact that the costs the ACA will place on citizens and employers has been exaggerated from day 1 is well established, and to be honest that cost the right much of their credibility on the issue. To get that back I need to see some serious discussion on resolving the actual problem with our healthcare system. Not some new angle they think might have a tiny chance at repealing the ACA, with no thought as to what comes next apart from a deep breath followed by a sigh of relief. Not some grandstanding to show constituents that politicians are representing their shortsighted propagandized opinions.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Navy Pride said:
Ah but there are thousands of stories like that...Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
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You do realize that this country is populated by more than 300 MILLION people right? Millions, even tens of millions more people are going to have health care when this law is fully implemented, and for most people, including subsidies, it will be reasonably priced.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Crossroads said:
You do realize that this country is populated by more than 300 MILLION people right? Millions, even tens of millions more people are going to have health care when this law is fully implemented, and for most people, including subsidies, it will be reasonably priced.
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Yes, yes, of course.... yes... ahh... er...it will ...ahh..be very reasonably priced. Yes, very reasonably priced. And your family will love it. In fact we'll just get the paperwork out of the way and you can drive it home today.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Crossroads said:
You do realize that this country is populated by more than 300 MILLION people right? Millions, even tens of millions more people are going to have health care when this law is fully implemented, and for most people, including subsidies, it will be reasonably priced.
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You are simply wrong my left wing friend.........There are millions of young people out there who could care less about health insurance and they will be forced to pay for it either though they don't want it.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

Navy Pride said:
You are simply wrong my left wing friend.........There are millions of young people out there who could care less about health insurance and they will be forced to pay for it either though they don't want it.
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There is a reason most states require everyone to carry car liability insurance; people get in accidents. You may think you're a good driver, and you may be a good driver, but we all get careless or make a mistake and an accident could be our fault. You may not have the money to fix the damage you caused, and that's bad, hence the REQUIREMENT to carry car ins.

Same thing with health ins. Of those millions of young people who don't want to pay for health ins., many will get sick, some very seriously sick or injured. Many of the seriously sick and injured will NOT be able to pay for the care required to fix what is wrong (if it is even fixable). They may require long term care and not be able to pay for that. It is good that the govt. has required them to accept personal responsibility so that you and I don't have to pay for their care, either in our taxes to county hospitals or in higher monthly health ins. premiums we pay. This was the repub plan back in 1993, have people accept personal responsibility for themselves.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

I haven't been able to get into the new ACA system to assess the damage, but what I am seeing from others on the internet is absolutely horrifying.

Coverage for a family of 4 on "silver" is just shy of $1000/month with high deductible. The penalty costs .. oh.. $10,000 less.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

finebead said:
There is a reason most states require everyone to carry car liability insurance; people get in accidents. You may think you're a good driver, and you may be a good driver, but we all get careless or make a mistake and an accident could be our fault. You may not have the money to fix the damage you caused, and that's bad, hence the REQUIREMENT to carry car ins.

Same thing with health ins. Of those millions of young people who don't want to pay for health ins., many will get sick, some very seriously sick or injured. Many of the seriously sick and injured will NOT be able to pay for the care required to fix what is wrong (if it is even fixable). They may require long term care and not be able to pay for that. It is good that the govt. has required them to accept personal responsibility so that you and I don't have to pay for their care, either in our taxes to county hospitals or in higher monthly health ins. premiums we pay. This was the repub plan back in 1993, have people accept personal responsibility for themselves.
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Hey there finebead, it's been a while :2wave:

I thought we had put this comparison to rest long ago...

1. It is a privilege to own and drive a car, not a right.

2. If auto insurance covered oil changes, and wiper blades, you'd have a closer analogy, not equal but closer.

3. There is NO federal mandate that you must have auto insurance, this is left to the states.

The two are different requirements all together.
 
Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

j-mac said:
What? "Thousands of stories"? Let's agree that anecdotal on either side of the argument are largely useless. So we should stick to the facts, and to date, the over ridding fact is that this law is not ready to be implemented, and to say that we need to just put it in place, and fix it later, is a dumb way of enacting anything.
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Ready? Define ready. Mostly that claim you make is merely empty rhetoric by those merely seeking to delay. Yes, it's not perfect. Few things ever are. But you will see better what is working and what isn't once you move forward. So, congress should stop the silly political tactics and start going to work.
 
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