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Thread: One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Maybe you accept that pablum, I don't. If you want to lay down and just take it as a voter, then remember that when your fellow travelers lose the majority, and the presidency.....Cuz I sure will.
    Take what? The law? No, like with any other law, feel free to vote the incumbants out. Feel free to work for new legislation. But be a damn grown up. Both sides have laws passed they don't like. It's the nature of things.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    I want a solution that works, and I don't care if the states compel people to take responsibility for themselves, or if the federal govt. requires it. This passed muster before the Supreme Court. Somebody has to solve this problem that has existed and been talked about since the late 80's at least. It became a signature issue in the 1992 election, and Bill Clinton won partly because he advocated healthcare reform. He was blocked by the repubs. The repub alternative talked about "personal responsibility" and had an individual mandate.


    Summary Of A 1993 Republican Health Reform Plan - Kaiser Health News
    Ok, but this is not a federal government issue. Our constitution specifically lays out the powers, and responsibilities of the federal government to oversee. Health Care is NOT one of them. Excuse me if I say it sounds more like you want some kind of central authority dictating over your life. In order to have that you have to change the constitution, and that hasn't been done.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Take what? The law? No, like with any other law, feel free to vote the incumbants out. Feel free to work for new legislation. But be a damn grown up. Both sides have laws passed they don't like. It's the nature of things.
    You want to take what an all powerful dictate government tells you to take...I'd rather have my liberty. And I will absolutely vote against progressives, repub, or demo. As for new legislation, that will have to be done, although at this point, you demo's have now implemented a new entitlement, and so rather than new legislation all together, this one will have to be dismantled, and changed to work. Unfortunately, it is going to be up to the adults to make it work, and not be a burden on the people.

    In the grand scheme of things, this law, totally rammed through by a party line only vote, that was compiled, and written by liberals, and progressive input only, and where the people were lied to repeatedly by the crafters of this law, in telling them that it wasn't a tax, then when it came time to defend it in court, it was argued cynically that it was a tax, this in the end could very well push the people over the edge and guarantee that progressives have to crawl back under that rock they hid under for the last 50 years.

    The major mistake liberals often make in their quest to change America from a Constitutional Republic, to a Banana Republic, is that they over reach. Liberals feel that instead of treating people like responsible adults who can make choices for themselves, good or bad, liberals feel like they have to treat everyone like children and make those decisions for them. In addition, they cynically know that once you give someone an entitlement, you lock them, and their vote into your camp for generations. It's sad. It is the way all tin horn dictators like Chavez do things, or did things, and maybe that is why liberals openly liked that global miscreant...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, but this is not a federal government issue. Our constitution specifically lays out the powers, and responsibilities of the federal government to oversee. Health Care is NOT one of them. Excuse me if I say it sounds more like you want some kind of central authority dictating over your life. In order to have that you have to change the constitution, and that hasn't been done.
    You are trying to shave that tomato peel to finely. If the states require you to buy car ins., and the feds require you to buy health ins., when you write the checks the result is the same; you are out some money but you have a party to pay for your expenses is something bad happens and it should be your responsibility to pay for it.

    Some things are just handled better at the federal level. Would you like 50 state armies; would their weapon systems inter-operate? The states build roads and they could have built an interstate highway system, but they look only at their state and never envisioned such a system. They could have compelled ins. companies to offer only policies that did not allow the exclusion of people based on pre existing conditions, but it would not have worked since the greedy ins. companies would have pulled out and gone to states that did not require such a hurdle. What was needed was an over-arching federal solution, one that has been needed for over 30 years; nobody stepped up to do it until Obama. I don't want to see this progress turned back. The states had 30 years to handle it and they did nothing (except Romneycare in Mass., which is the same as Obamacare). That's how I know the state level is not the correct place to handle this problem. If it needs to be improved, then get working on it. No rollback.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You want to take what an all powerful dictate government tells you to take...I'd rather have my liberty. And I will absolutely vote against progressives, repub, or demo. As for new legislation, that will have to be done, although at this point, you demo's have now implemented a new entitlement, and so rather than new legislation all together, this one will have to be dismantled, and changed to work. Unfortunately, it is going to be up to the adults to make it work, and not be a burden on the people.

    In the grand scheme of things, this law, totally rammed through by a party line only vote, that was compiled, and written by liberals, and progressive input only, and where the people were lied to repeatedly by the crafters of this law, in telling them that it wasn't a tax, then when it came time to defend it in court, it was argued cynically that it was a tax, this in the end could very well push the people over the edge and guarantee that progressives have to crawl back under that rock they hid under for the last 50 years.

    The major mistake liberals often make in their quest to change America from a Constitutional Republic, to a Banana Republic, is that they over reach. Liberals feel that instead of treating people like responsible adults who can make choices for themselves, good or bad, liberals feel like they have to treat everyone like children and make those decisions for them. In addition, they cynically know that once you give someone an entitlement, you lock them, and their vote into your camp for generations. It's sad. It is the way all tin horn dictators like Chavez do things, or did things, and maybe that is why liberals openly liked that global miscreant...
    That's all strawman j. The fact is we are a nation of laws, and we have processes in place. You'd be on the other side of the issue if this was a republican in office. The congress is behaving childishly and are merely trying to circumvent a law already debated and passed. That's what makes Stewart's commentary resonate. It would be a lot like the Giants demanding 25 more points of they'll shut down the NFL. Congress needs to move forward, like adults, following the law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post


    The proposal has to be how to improve what is existing.
    Not according to Obama. He said "non-negotiable". I assume he finally meant something this time? Or was it another one of his lies?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Not according to Obama. He said "non-negotiable". I assume he finally meant something this time? Or was it another one of his lies?
    As being offered it is. But congress can write law as it sees fit.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As being offered it is. But congress can write law as it sees fit.
    No they can't when you have an Obama sycophant blocking anything reasonable from a vote.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No they can't when you have an Obama sycophant blocking anything reasonable from a vote.
    No, that's just one more misunderstanding on your part.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    You are trying to shave that tomato peel to finely. If the states require you to buy car ins., and the feds require you to buy health ins., when you write the checks the result is the same; you are out some money but you have a party to pay for your expenses is something bad happens and it should be your responsibility to pay for it.
    Sorry bead, I totally disagree...There are major differences between car insurance, and the ACA. If Obama, and the liberal progressives wanted that to be true, then a more reasonable fix would have been to open the market to have health insurance sold across state lines...Did they do that? No. Also, car insurance is different in many ways. Maybe when Health insurance starts covering my oil changes I'll listen, until then, it is a bad comparison.

    Some things are just handled better at the federal level. Would you like 50 state armies; would their weapon systems inter-operate?
    The Army is covered in Article 1 Section 8. Can you show me where the Constitution says that the individual be compelled by threat of penalty that anyone buy a private product?

    The states build roads and they could have built an interstate highway system, but they look only at their state and never envisioned such a system.
    Again, laid out in Article 1 Section 8 quite clearly. And once the interstate system was built, it is the states through federal funding that maintains that system...You're not told you are required to drive that interstate system are you?

    They could have compelled ins. companies to offer only policies that did not allow the exclusion of people based on pre existing conditions, but it would not have worked since the greedy ins. companies would have pulled out and gone to states that did not require such a hurdle.
    Maybe, maybe not...You have no idea what would have happened because there was only one thing that progressives were after, and they were not to be denied....Nothing else was tried.

    What was needed was an over-arching federal solution, one that has been needed for over 30 years; nobody stepped up to do it until Obama.
    Not true, Hillary tried this crap, and was refuted. But beyond that, I understand that you don't see market solutions to problems, only big government solutions...That isn't America, or at least not any America I want to see take hold.

    I don't want to see this progress turned back.
    Well, that all depends on how this thing takes hold...The rubber is going to meet the road, and although the current circus going on in DC may not be successful in getting this dictate staved off until the beast can be contained, there will come a time when people (if the want) will over turn the Senate, and Presidency and return it to repubs who will then repeal this horrible law.

    The states had 30 years to handle it and they did nothing (except Romneycare in Mass., which is the same as Obamacare).
    That's like saying that you don't do what I want, so I am going to force you to....It is, or was, a free country.

    That's how I know the state level is not the correct place to handle this problem.
    Well, as I have pointed out, your analogies in coming to your conclusions are flawed, and typical of those in support that parrot the same things. Meh, I guess to a certain extent so are mine, but hey we will see in the long run won't we?

    If it needs to be improved, then get working on it. No rollback.
    Careful what you wish for...This is also typical of the hard left thinking that is further dividing this country today...The idea that one party control rams through something horrible, then instead of actually fixing it, they cross their arms like children, and say you don't like it fix it, knowing full well that they won't lift a finger to rationally work to do just that.

    Go ahead and keep playing these totalitarian games and hopefully the American people see it for what it is, and banish progressivism for another century.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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