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Thread: One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I heard their only going to help 11 million uninsured instead of the 22 million they originally planned for. The whole purpose of this idiot program was to help the uninsured, WTF??

    U.S. government scales back Obamacare impact for 2014 | Reuters
    No the whole purpose was to overload the current system, break it, and replace it with government controlled single payer. Classic Cloward and Piven......
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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

    We need to bookmark this thread so we can come back to it in say a couple of months or a year. I want to see if the song is still the same when everybody sees what their rates are really going to be. I am currently paying more for our health insurance plan (healthy family of 3) than I pay for my house. It has gone up 35% in the past year, and that is mild. We get our insurance thru my wife's job as a medical lab tech. When the increase came down I looked in to other private options and found that they were even more expensive. I suspect when all these 20 somethings who choose not to carry health insurance are forced to they will be tweeting about it. At least, when they are forced to do it after they are not able to be on mom and dad's plan anymore. Until then they will continue to tell us how awesome this scam is. What was the quote about socialism being great until you run out of other people's money?

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare[W:51]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No the whole purpose was to overload the current system, break it, and replace it with government controlled single payer. Classic Cloward and Piven......
    I guess I should have qualified it by says that was the purported reason.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by shagg View Post
    Without the mandate/penalty you end up with a horrible crisis of the commons. Loss of a certain degree of freedom is something you have to deal with when you choose to live in any society. The freedom to take what you want, the freedom to physically assault other people, the freedom to not pay taxes; it's a long list.....

    Liberty isn't The One, it's one of The Three, and you can't have 100% freedom AND the other 2.
    We can argue that point if you wish, but the point I was making was that the legislation infringes on my rights, it doesn't expand them as the poster, or Obama are suggesting.

    Also, arguing that a reduction in freedom is necessary price for the functionality of a given government program is not an intrinsic defense of the cost. It is asking that I pay a price for something I don't even want (both in actual dollars and in my personal freedom).
    Last edited by jmotivator; 09-26-13 at 10:12 AM.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I heard their only going to help 11 million uninsured instead of the 22 million they originally planned for. The whole purpose of this idiot program was to help the uninsured, WTF??

    U.S. government scales back Obamacare impact for 2014 | Reuters
    It doesn't go far enough. That's why liberals aren't thrilled with the law. It is too much steeped in republican ideas. If we were serious on the point you bring up, we'd go with UHC.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Those will be called bronze plans in the new marketplaces.
    No they aren't. Bronze plans are not catastrophic coverage plans, they are high deductible plans.

    Catastrophic coverage plans only cover major medical events like broken bones, heart attacks, cancer, etc. They cover nothing else. All the small charges for antibiotics or doctors visits, etc. are paid out of pocket, and with a health savings plan I get to sock money away for those expenses tax free. It is MUCH cheaper than a full coverage plan and just as functional.

    That arrangement is not available to me under ACA because I am too old and make too much money by the new law. I get shoved into the abysmal comprehensive plans.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 09-26-13 at 10:24 AM.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It doesn't go far enough. That's why liberals aren't thrilled with the law. It is too much steeped in republican ideas. If we were serious on the point you bring up, we'd go with UHC.
    OMG, are you still blaming the Republicans for passing this law. You people always come up with talking points to blame the Republicans for laws they voted against. I can have an idea too, but just because I think of it doesn't mean I want it passed. At some point you have to take responsibility for voting for that law and own it. I'm against UHC too. This law is purely leftwing incrementalism, and I think it's going to be a disaster. But you people wanted it, and the Supreme Court okayed it as a tax.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The mandate doesn't deny you, but instead gives you coverage. You are not denied insurance. you're not denied care. Care isn't run by the government. Like with auto insurance, you're merely mandated to be responsible so that others don't have to carry the burden of your irresponsibility.

    And we've always had regulations. It's part of the world. And these are born by a free people. You will find far fewer regulations in a dictatorship, or in any abusively run government. Government doesn't favor regulations. People push for them in order to deal with a problem that has been identified. Most are largely ground up efforts and not top down.

    A health care savings plan has real limits. It would only really help a small percentage of people. It simply lacks the impact to be viable as the centerpiece of any plan. It certainly can be an aspect, but largely would make little to no noticeable difference.

    And you do have choice. Just as a driver has a choice. But as it should be, choices have consequences.

    Man, you REALLY don't get it. The government isn't giving me jacksh**. I AM PAYING FOR IT.

    And you are wrong, the healthcare savings plan would help a lot of people. If, say, Company A is paying 70% of an employee's health insurance on a $12000/year coverage, that is $8400 a year contributed by the employer. In the system I use the employer could pay 70% into a $6000/year catastrophic plan and $3000/year into a health savings plan for far less less cost and the average person would have a huge health savings plan by the time they retire.

    In fact, the only people who would fall short in such a plan are those who have a catastrophic illness before they amass enough in their health savings plan to meet the deductible.

    Depending on the plan that would be as little as 1-3 years. The number of people who would contract a catastrophic illness in that time would be a very small percent.

    This choice has been taken off the table for most Americans.

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    We can argue that point if you wish, but the point I was making was that the legislation infringes on my rights, it doesn't expand them as the poster, or Obama are suggesting.

    Also, arguing that a reduction in freedom is necessary price for the functionality of a given government program is not an intrinsic defense of the cost. It is asking that I pay a price for something I don't even want (both in actual dollars and in my personal freedom).
    Fair enough. But you're saying you have the right to insure yourself as you see fit. I would have no problem with this if taxpayers didn't have to foot the bill when your cheap insurance (or lack there of for many many people) comes up short. When emergency rooms became legally obligated to treat anyone who walks through their doors, despite ability to pay, mandatory insurance of a certain caliber became an inevitability. And the longer we wait the more painful it will be.
    Could It Be Semantics Generating This Mess We're In?

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    Re: One man's ObamaCare nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Man, you REALLY don't get it. The government isn't giving me jacksh**. I AM PAYING FOR IT.

    And you are wrong, the healthcare savings plan would help a lot of people. If, say, Company A is paying 70% of an employee's health insurance on a $12000/year coverage, that is $8400 a year contributed by the employer. In the system I use the employer could pay 70% into a $6000/year catastrophic plan and $3000/year into a health savings plan for far less less cost and the average person would have a huge health savings plan by the time they retire.

    In fact, the only people who would fall short in such a plan are those who have a catastrophic illness before they amass enough in their health savings plan to meet the deductible.

    Depending on the plan that would be as little as 1-3 years. The number of people who would contract a catastrophic illness in that time would be a very small percent.

    This choice has been taken off the table for most Americans.
    No one said they were giving you ****. They were merely setting the (HIGHER) standards for insurance, which there was cause to do, and requiring you to be responsible.

    And people do in fact need huge amount of health care dollars before they retire. No matter how large or small that umber, it happens, and it is passed on to the rest of us. That's why republicans used to support it.

    Routine care, while less expensive, is also something that is on going. Many of the working poor have to make more difficult decisions, and health care is often left unmet. This does a few things. One they are set up to have more health problems. And this leads to more serious issues later on, and then we pay for it. The mistake your side makes is you miss a rather large chunk of working people who don't qualify for government aid, but don't really make enough to adequately handle health care needs. You speak too often to the ends, but not the middle. Your plans will have no real impact there.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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