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Thread: Lower Health Insurance Premiums to Come at Cost of Fewer Choices

  1. #81
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    Re: Lower Health Insurance Premiums to Come at Cost of Fewer Choices

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    First the low end minumum wage jobs have had businesses playing the part time reduced benefit game for a long time. I am not sure when it started but ever since i got into the work force it has been a reality that when you start someplace in minimum wage positions they kept you part time because one of the things they offered to full time people was health coverage. There is also other reasons for tax payment purposes that have been around that have resulted in businesses using part time help over full time. That is nothing new, and really most companies were already playing that game, they just blame it on Obamacare now.
    What you say here has slivers of truth in it...However, this is but one aspect that will have businesses dropping employees off to government exchanges rather than cover them as they have always done. You seem to be shrugging off the reality of the situation rather than address what the law is doing in this time of high unemployment, and fragile economy to start with.

    I can agree that because obama put off the employer mandate that companies will probably take the opportunity while they can to push their costs off onto the employees. Still, since that is just delayed they will eventually need to offer the health care plans in the future. I actually agree it was a pretty crappy thing for Obama to do to make some stupid excuse to let the employers off the hook for a year. Still, I cannot totally blame him considering how the republicans have done everything possible to derail implementation and there may be some truth to the claim they are behind schedule because of the open interference. It is convenient for the contributors to both the reps and the dems that it was pushed back, but not to regular people.
    Two points on this from my POV...

    1. Republicans can't do a whole lot of anything...They only have 1/2 of 1/3 of our government...This constant push to blame everything that goes wrong on republicans is a farce.

    2. You speak of "regular people", well the polls are against this 2 to 1 yet demo's, and Obama seem tone deaf on that fact...

    I tell ya, I just don't understand why it would be such a big deal for Obama to come out and say, "you know what American people? We thought that we could jam this into being, and are having an incredibly hard time. As your President I hear you, that is why I am instructing congress to delay the implementation of the ACA for 1 year. And, in that time frame I along with the Senate Majority leader, Harry Reid are going to sit down with Republicans to go through the bill, something we didn't do when drafting, and passing the original bill, and make the necessary changes to provide stability, and predictability to business, and the affordability, and accessibility to the people."

    But that would mean that instead of pure rhetoric, and political attack, and division, Obama and demos would actually have to sit down with repubs and come up with something.

    Also, it does not seem like they are being forced to change doctors unless they are worried about costs. That has always been the way of insurance. Maybe if you have a more expensive insurance plan then you do not have to deal with it, and you could always pay for it yourself, but when you are bargain hunting you may not get who you want to do service for you. That is how bargain hunting works. Sometimes when you cut costs you have to go somewhere else.
    But that is NOT how the plan was sold now is it....



    Tera, people wonder why Obama's job approval is dropping like a rock, down around 40% now, and I say that the inside the Beltway excuse of foreign policy is hurting him, I think it is a accumulation of things like this type of bold lying straight to the American peoples faces, then turning and trying to project his lies to us onto the republicans as being recalcitrant, and not giving him the free reign of a dictator. We are getting tired of the progressive lies.

    But, I see that we have some semblance of agreement to work with here Tera, so, I couch my claim of lies to the political progressive, and not as a general slap ok?
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    Re: Lower Health Insurance Premiums to Come at Cost of Fewer Choices

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What you say here has slivers of truth in it...However, this is but one aspect that will have businesses dropping employees off to government exchanges rather than cover them as they have always done. You seem to be shrugging off the reality of the situation rather than address what the law is doing in this time of high unemployment, and fragile economy to start with.
    Businesses always go the way of saving a buck when they can. Are you saying that more government regulation is what should happen to avoid businesses screwing over employees because they can? I would agree with that which means obama did screw people when he opened up that hole, but I find it funny coming from a conservative telling us that we should be forcing businesses to take their employees seriously and provide benefits and proper pay or face legal problems.


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Two points on this from my POV...

    1. Republicans can't do a whole lot of anything...They only have 1/2 of 1/3 of our government...This constant push to blame everything that goes wrong on republicans is a farce.
    When you do not own the whole thing you do not get everything you w2ant. That means compromise is not a 4 letter word. The law was certainly a hige compromise to begin with, reps got their romneycare over universal healthcare, and now they fight against a law they made and decided to add crappy things to make it fail. You can say what you want, but they are the ones who have pitched a spoiled fit 40 times to repeal the law and have made it the end of the world for them. Who is going to get blamed? The child kicking and screaming on the floor throwing an obvious tantrum, or the adults trying to get a small part of their job done and facing the spoiled tantrum? You can say it is a farce, but republicans have done everything in their power to make themselves the obvious culprit. I am pretty sure no one expects the dems to just stop funding parts of laws the republicans happen to dislike. It is part of the government and now it is time to pass a budget. If you do not have the ability to repeal it you need to pay for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    2. You speak of "regular people", well the polls are against this 2 to 1 yet demo's, and Obama seem tone deaf on that fact...
    You mean the same polls that say Romney is going to be our next president in a landslide? The same weekly polls that are cherry picked and manipulated? Or are you referring to things like faux news asking it's listeners to make a poll? People are tired of polls. It is there and it is not able to be repealed. Even if people generally want it gone they do not want the government shut down to do it. You are lumping every person into the fundie mindset of burn the whole house down because you do not like the toilet, and even uyour cherry picked manipulated polls do not show that to be the case. Any day they can repeal it that is their option, but if they cannot they simply have to fund it in the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I tell ya, I just don't understand why it would be such a big deal for Obama to come out and say, "you know what American people? We thought that we could jam this into being, and are having an incredibly hard time. As your President I hear you, that is why I am instructing congress to delay the implementation of the ACA for 1 year. And, in that time frame I along with the Senate Majority leader, Harry Reid are going to sit down with Republicans to go through the bill, something we didn't do when drafting, and passing the original bill, and make the necessary changes to provide stability, and predictability to business, and the affordability, and accessibility to the people."
    Keep on hoping there, but that is not happening no matter how many BS articles fix noise writes, or how many BS polls they make and pay for. Do remember that while the reps are making up their poll numbers obama is probably making up his own polls to support himself. If obama caves the next thing that will happen is republicans will refuse to make a budget and try to defund all of welfare, they will use it to defund social security, and they will try this BS backdoor to get their way on everything. The fundies in the republican party need a good spanking, and they are about to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But that would mean that instead of pure rhetoric, and political attack, and division, Obama and demos would actually have to sit down with repubs and come up with something.
    You see, that excuse only works on right wing people who ignore the obvious attempts the dems have made repeatedly to sit down with the republicans and have watched the reps smack them in the face every single time they have done it. Now Obama is a spineless worm, but perhaps he is tired of getting smacked around for caving into 90 percent of republican demands. Styill, most people are well aware the republicans are trying to run the country with less than a majority and they settle for no compromises. Eventually when you have a person doing blackmail threatening to cut their nose off to spite their face you toss them a knife and say do it.


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But that is NOT how the plan was sold now is it....
    Actually that was how the ACA came about because we were promised universal healthcare and the end to insurance. You are confused, compromise does not mean getting everything you want. But certainly america has been sold a number of lies about obamacare from the right. If you lie enough to people they simply start tuning out your spoiled fits and BS. Most people are well aware Obamacare is not the fix US healthcare needs to become good for everyone. however, there are some fixed things. People remember the joys of dealing with the insurance company refusing to cover their medical expenses and dropping their coverage. The way it was before demanded change and now it is coming. Oh, and for a few people the republican hissy fit has an opposite effect. They are actually wondering just why republicans fear it so much, and they know it is not because the sky is falling on america. They have gone to that well once too often, and some people feel that perhaps this regulation is being fought so hard by big business because it might actually help the lower class people who have been seeing a massive increase in numbers recently.


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Tera, people wonder why Obama's job approval is dropping like a rock, down around 40% now, and I say that the inside the Beltway excuse of foreign policy is hurting him, I think it is a accumulation of things like this type of bold lying straight to the American peoples faces, then turning and trying to project his lies to us onto the republicans as being recalcitrant, and not giving him the free reign of a dictator. We are getting tired of the progressive lies.
    Here is one of your problems. obama's approval rating has been dropping because he has gone republican on many issues. Those people who voted for him expecting some democratic actions are not going to go republican because they think that is the problem. Think about it from your POV. Let us say the next election is between a RINO like Mccain and hillary. Are you going to vote for hillary because mccain is a RINO? That does not make any sense and you are deluding yourself into thinking people are shifting republican because they are bothered with obama for being too republican. That sort of logic could only come from right wing media trying to BS it's base to think they are going to win this.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But, I see that we have some semblance of agreement to work with here Tera, so, I couch my claim of lies to the political progressive, and not as a general slap ok?
    We do not agree on why obama is disliked, just that he is disliked. We do not agree on why obamacare sucks, just that it does suck. That goes back to the last point. This is the same mistake the reps made in attacking obamacare without their own policy to correct the problems that existed. Just because people do not feel Obamacare goes far enough to correct the massive problems with for profit health insurance does not mean that they want the old system that was screwing them much worse back. I would actually love to see a republican plan for health care overhaul that I could compare with Obamacare, but there is no plan. In a choice between a little gain and the crappy system of health insurance abuse that was happening before i will take the little gain. I am not going with nothing simply because the little gain was not the change i wanted.

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