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Thread: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

  1. #51
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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Other = I dunno

    scapegoat lean declaring is scapegoat.
    If you wish to discuss this as a topic, feel free to start a thread on it. Otherwise, any further post along this line of debate/discuassion would be derailing to the topic of this thread.
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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Running away on foot doesn't
    endanger anyone else's life unless you run into traffic.
    If a suspect is running, then there is NO way they can verify whether or not he's got a Glock 17 tucked in his wasteband or in a shoulder holster.

    Running after a traffic stop definately puts the lives of the suspsct and the offocers in danger.

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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    1.)I know you didn't actually make the statement above but quoting folks when they quote the media gets kinda dicey. I'm technically attributing it to you but we both know it's from the newspapers.

    2.)Anyhow, if that's the legal definition of "vehicular homicide" I'd have a tough time charging a cop with it too, if I was sitting on a grand jury or if I was a prosecutor.

    3.)Actually, here's the law directly from Florida's Statutes webpage:


    4,.)So yeah, I can't stand behind that charge.

    5.)This is not to defend this cop. He clearly did something wrong, I suspect broke "some" law, violated some regulation or procedure, or at the very least made a horrible mistake that should, at the very least, cost him his job (and it would seem that it has).

    6.)But to tell a cop "it's your job to catch criminals, and we understand that you'll sometimes have to drive in a manner that for any civilian would be considered wildly reckless and potentially dangerous, but we'll train you to do so in a controlled fashion" and then charge him with violating a law that we've already told him he has to break in order to properly do his job is kinda going a bit too far, as far as I'm concerned.

    7.) I think that was the wrong charge to make and it's the wrong charge to be pushing for.

    8.) I don't know Florida law, or "law" in general well enough to offer suggestions as to what would be a better or appropriate charge,
    1.) no problem i understand
    2.) i wouldnt because its exactly what he did ass soon as he decided to break protocol and procedures and travel at unsafe speeds on grass, thats gross negligence IMO and definitely operating in a reckless manner. Its why he was fired.

    3.) thanks for posting this
    4.) i could, it solidifies it for me, because he certainly wasnt operating in a controlled manner that could not cause harm or death.

    ALso the reason why charges havent been officially brought up yet is because of the corner report, not his driving.

    the corner report says theres no evidence of a car "striking him" just the the car "rested" on top of him causing his death..

    5.) i understand and yes his job is lost as it should be, this makes it to trail more will happen, like me and many other says, per the video it even "seems" he step on the gas at then end to increase impact. The engine definitely revs hard and theres no hood dip from brakes.

    6.) yep and him ignoring this training is what got him fired, you dont chase suspects on foot directly behind them while on grass, dirt etc. this is basic common sense. Its him not doing it in a controlled fashion that got him fired at minimum for now.

    7.) i dont think its the wrong charge at all, gross negligence resulting in a death, accidental homicide, involuntary man slaughter etc may have been "better" but the charge isnt out of reach IMO In fact i hope they eventually get to charge with one of those.

    8.) me neither thats why i just kind of rattled off some charges i know exist in general

    did you watch the unedited video
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  4. #54
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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Sure sounded like an engine revving to me. I also didn't see the hood dip suddenly, and the view didn't seem to be fishtailing or skidding.
    Hard to tell from the video. I do know, from experience, that when weight is removed from the drive wheel, a engine will rev higher even at ideal until, on modern cars, the computer adjust it back down. This happens because a cars engine is controlled by the computer which under loads uses a different fuel map then when it is not under a load.

    Under off road/uneven conditions, it would be very hard to determine if a vehicle is breaking due to hood movement.

    Skidding is not very likely until very low speeds as the anti-lock breaking system will cycle to keep the wheels from locking up until speed is reduced under the threshold of the computer.

    The lack of fishtailing does, under the conditions in the video, definitively shows that, if rear wheel drive, then the car was not under heavy acceleration. A front wheel drive vehicle would not fishtail at all under those conditions, however, if the front wheel drive lost traction, the vehicle would show some evidence of acceleration by the movement of the front of the car under maneuver, ie, the car would not respond to steering inputs instantly.

    Too hard to determine from the video. However, it does appear that the officer controlling the vehicle was using it to get closer to the criminal prior to engaging in a foot chase. Watch enough episodes of cops, and you will see them do it sometimes.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) what m point of view please tell me id love to know
    2.) there are no problems you talked about that go towards this case
    3.) cute opinion but if you want to start a discussion on that opinion and that topic feel free.
    4.) yep hence why he was instantly fired and so far he is lucky he isnt charged yet
    5.) yes i know some people are irrational, illogical, uncivil and dont care about law and legal/human rights. THis is true. I do though, so did the guy that fired this moron.
    6.) or increase the lost of freedoms, justice, liberty and rights which most value more.
    7.) nope, a stupid officer breaking procedure got him killed, thats the problem and why that officer was in fact fired and why he could be facing charges.

    please continue, this is great
    Interesting that you jumped on the fact that he was fired for not following procedure, and yet, the police department which fired him

    DeLand police are conducting an internal review of the incident. This week, law enforcement officials have been going over more than 2,000 documents to determine whether appropriate tactics were used, whether police policies were followed and if those policies reflect the best way to deal with similar situations.

    So, if they are investigating whether procedures were broken, ie. they don't know yet, then how can he be fired for violating them? Sounds more like his firing was a knee jerk reaction and "violating procedure" was a convenient excuse.

    Further, your quote and others pointing out the definition of vehicular manslaughter, like many other such laws, like speeding, reckless driving and others are not normally applied to police involved in vehicle chases. The city was right to turn it over to the DA for consideration, however, paying reparations to the family and firing the officer before they had actually have completed the investigation shows a knee jerk reaction of fear, not logic or normal procedure.

    None of the articles so far posted here even state what procedure he is accused of violating.

    Frankly, although hard to tell race from the video, it sounds like the police are engaged in a political move to cut off protest and outrage that another "blackman" was killed by police than it does of anything involving actual investigation or determinations from that investigation. They acted way too fast following the incident and before investigations were completed for the alleged reason for the firing.
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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    1.)Interesting that you jumped on the fact that he was fired for not following procedure, and yet, the police department which fired him

    2.)DeLand police are conducting an internal review of the incident. This week, law enforcement officials have been going over more than 2,000 documents to determine whether appropriate tactics were used, whether police policies were followed and if those policies reflect the best way to deal with similar situations.
    3.)So, if they are investigating whether procedures were broken, ie. they don't know yet, then how can he be fired for violating them? Sounds more like his firing was a knee jerk reaction and "violating procedure" was a convenient excuse.
    4.)Further, your quote and others pointing out the definition of vehicular manslaughter, like many other such laws, like speeding, reckless driving and others are not normally applied to police involved in vehicle chases. The city was right to turn it over to the DA for consideration, however, paying reparations to the family and firing the officer before they had actually have completed the investigation shows a knee jerk reaction of fear, not logic or normal procedure.
    5.) None of the articles so far posted here even state what procedure he is accused of violating.
    6.)Frankly, although hard to tell race from the video, it sounds like the police are engaged in a political move to cut off protest and outrage that another "blackman" was killed by police than it does of anything involving actual investigation or determinations from that investigation. They acted way too fast following the incident and before investigations were completed for the alleged reason for the firing.
    1.) yep that was their statement
    2.) yes now because this cant go to trial the polices are conducting a deep internal investigation due to pressure /request also in one of the articles
    3.) see #2 The captain or officer in charge fired him immediately after viewing the tape. No knee jerk at all.
    4.) i agree until you break procedure, most high speed chases arent even permitted in certain areas, time of day etc unless theres extra circumstances. Very logical after watching the dash cam
    5.) not saying thats not true but i cant recall any articles referring to specific protocols/procedures, just saying their are violations and im talking about other cases also.
    6.) lol who cares who was killed, the guy could have been neon pink for all i care and the video shows gross negligence by the officer IMO.

    the only thing keeping this from going to trial at the moment is the corners report which makes no sense to me.

    it stating the he wasnt killed by the impact but it resting on him seems completely meaningless to me.

    I hope this makes it even if they have to use different charges and this guy goes to jail. Luckily most cops are smarter much better than this.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 10-02-13 at 02:51 PM.
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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Harris was fired soon after by Deland Police Chief Bill Ridgway for violating department protocols.
    “The actions taken by officer Harris that night are not consistent with our department’s training, directives or accepted practices or techniques,” Chief of Police William E. Ridgway said in a statement.
    he family decided to file a complaint after the case’s first medical examiner, Dr. Shipping Bao, told them he thought the case was a homicide, but his boss would not allow him to put that in the report. Bao was replaced by Dr. marie Herrmann, who ruled Brown’s death accidental.
    Crump has filed a complaint against the chief medical examiner, Dr. Marie Herrmann. Crump says, "Dr. Shiping Bao says he wanted to put in the report that it was a traumatic homicide. However, he was told he could not put that in the autopsy report. Then, subsequent, Dr. Herrmann puts in the autopsy report the manner of death as an accident; which is totally contradictory to what Dr. Shiping Bao wanted to put."
    also comments of the engine rev in articles that other people noticed

    VERY fishy and definitely protocol violations

    what will that lead too? who knows but it should definitely go to trial IMO.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    (CNN) -- The family of a Florida man has released video of his death, hoping to get criminal charges filed against the police officer who ran him over.
    On May 8, Marlon Brown was being chased by DeLand police because they allegedly saw that he was not wearing a seatbelt. At a dead-end road, Brown stopped his car and started running.
    One of the police cars hit and ran him over, its dashcam video recording the entire incident.
    Last week, a grand jury decided not to indict officer James Harris on a criminal charge of vehicular manslaughter. That's when the family decided to go public, and release the video.
    "We knew it wasn't going to be an easy video to watch," says Krystal Brown the ex-wife and mother of Brown's children, "but in order to obtain justice, and that's what we're looking for, we knew it was something that we had to do."
    Unarmed man shot 10 times by police
    Excessive force in police shooting? Police officer faces charges for shooting death Mark O'Mara: 10 shots seem 'excessive' Cops hit bystanders in New York
    Justice, the family says, would be criminal charges against Harris for killing Marlon Brown. Harris, who has been fired as a result of the incident, could not be reached for comment.

    Man's family releases video of his death from police car dashcam - CNN.com

    watching the video it seems more an issue of reckless behavior on the end of the cop, as opposed to intentionally running him over. I mean, the two things cited by the victims family and lawyer to lend credence to the claim it was intentional is that the cop didn't swerve and that you can see him before the cop runs him over. The issue with this is we are talking about wet grass, and a reaction window that existed for what appears to be 2-3 seconds at the most.

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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I've seen the unedited footage of the tape, he most certainly did NOT break. He aimed his car straight for the man, going around the other police vehicle which was doing the right thing and maintained his speed through impact and stopped on top of him.
    The video is available online and nothing I saw in it suggested he aimed the vehicle at the guy. He was chasing him with a car (which is beyond stupid in thse conditions) and the guy fell in front of the car during the pursuit.


    And he was fired for it. I've sat on a grand jury. They are rubber stamps for the prosecution.
    lol @ maqking a claim to authority here. Go back to the holiday inn

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    Re: Victims family releases graphic video of his death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're not a felon until convicted of a felony. What felony was he convicted of?
    I believe he had an extensive criminal background and was currently out on parole

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