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Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

DiAnna said:
It's stories like this that break my heart, and there are thousands of them. I'm furious at the government for throwing medals at our wounded warriors as they kick them down the VA steps.

I'm willing to bet that as more and more young people experience the disillusionment of veterans, and see first-hand how our government really treats them when they cease to be useful, our "all volunteer" military will dwindle to a mere shadow of itself until someone in high places wakes the hell up, realizes that being in government is MORE than just destroying the other party while gaining power for their own, and understand that every single person in government has the absolute DUTY to work for the good of the nation instead of working for the good of themselves.
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Rather than criticising this post as American bashing and you as anti American, I accept that you are acknowledging grossly failing US policy and wishing for improvement.
 
Rocketman said:
Society has failed these young men and women. We have lowered the standards we expect of our young growing up. We have tried to remove as much competitive games in young children as possible and even lowered the standards for entry into the military. Young fragile minds are growing into adult fragile minds with inability to cope with disappointment and obstacles. We have literally brought this on ourselves.
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I agree with you entirely. I've argued before against the people who want to protect everyone against any form of bullying and keeping kids from taking any responsibility for themselves, that just produces adult wimps who cannot deal with the hardships of adult life. We are absolutely harming our own children and the military airing commercials about adventure and honor and all that, but conveniently not mentioning that you're going to get shot at and perhaps killed, is just making military life look romantic, it doesn't present a realistic view, especially in recent years when idiots in the White House have put us into numerous armed conflicts.

What happens is the fault of all of us and it starts long before these poor men and women join the military.
 
DiAnna said:
It's stories like this that break my heart, and there are thousands of them. I'm furious at the government for throwing medals at our wounded warriors as they kick them down the VA steps.
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How much are those medals worth? They could sell them on eBay in exchange for money to pay their health care expenses.
 
Rocketman said:
Society has failed these young men and women.
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Society has not failed them. Those young men and women failed themselves by making a decision to throw away their lives for the govt.

Rocketman said:
We have lowered the standards we expect of our young growing up. We have tried to remove as much competitive games in young children as possible and even lowered the standards for entry into the military.
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Actually, the military officially has some standards. In reality, it has none.

Rocketman said:
Young fragile minds are growing into adult fragile minds with inability to cope with disappointment and obstacles. We have literally brought this on ourselves.
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Who's we? ? I had no part in this. If I screw up, I accept the responsibility for my own mistakes. Those who naively joined the Armed Forces are no different. After all, look at the first sin. . .

The Nine Satanic Sins

You do something dumb, you must pay the price for it. But, in the long run, it's not bad--those who made the misguided decision to enlist will hopefully pass on their wisdom to future generations, about how now to get suckered in by cheap gummint propoganda, i. e. the notion that US soldiers "serve their country."
 
Cephus said:
Apparently not because people, by and large, keep electing the same people in every election. These politicians aren't getting recalled. You can't have people who hate the government putting the exact same people back in power again and again and have it make any sense.
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The reason why the govt. doesn't represent the people is irrelevant. The only relevant fact in determining whether the govt. equates to the will of the people is whether it does.

So if it doesn't, then the govt. and people are separate.
 
solletica said:
The reason why the govt. doesn't represent the people is irrelevant. The only relevant fact in determining whether the govt. equates to the will of the people is whether it does.

So if it doesn't, then the govt. and people are separate.
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But it does or the people would change the government. Why is that so hard for you to understand? It represents the will of the majority. It might not represent YOU, but your political views are far, far outside the majority.
 
Cephus said:
But it does or the people would change the government. Why is that so hard for you to understand? It represents the will of the majority. It might not represent YOU, but your political views are far, far outside the majority.
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Do you really mean to say that the American people have the ability to change the government and its policies?
 
solletica said:
How much are those medals worth? They could sell them on eBay in exchange for money to pay their health care expenses.
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Most medals will, along with a quarter, buy one a cup of coffee at the snack bar.
 
Henry David said:
Do you really mean to say that the American people have the ability to change the government and its policies?
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Yup. Every election. Will they? Who knows. They have the ability though, unless you're claiming that all elections are rigged and votes don't matter.
 
Cephus said:
Yup. Every election. Will they? Who knows. They have the ability though, unless you're claiming that all elections are rigged and votes don't matter.
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That is very much a theoretical assessment.

I agree with Jimmy Carter, and I don't think your assessment comports with reality. Not that the elections are rigged per se, no, I don't think that is widespread, though I'm sure it does happen from time to time. On its best day, politics is a dirty business.

My cynical view is that the entire 2 party system is both intellectually and morally bankrupt. As Nancy Pelosi demonstrated perfectly by taking impeachment off the table those years ago, there is no functional or realistic difference between the 2 major parties.

Now, you are absolutely correct that We The People carry quite a bit of the blame for this travesty, but it's true the system is rigged.

For example, on the last 2 elections here in Florida, voters had the choice of 7 or 9 candidates (can't remember which right now) for President, yet they rejected those other more principled choices in favor of either a black war monger or a white senile war monger.

In my mind, when it comes to actually having some measure of control over government actions, the jury box is far more potent than the ballot box.
 
The Cat said:
This literally makes me want to cry, anybody who says the VA hasn't failed these men & woman is completely delusional. The government can't manage this, how can then be expected manage the entirety of the American people........
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Those vets who turn to the VA for help have a much lower rate of suicide. Most of them don't, and it's not for lack of the VA reaching out to them.

VA personnel go through a lot of training in how to deal with suicidal vets. It's a top priority at the VA.
 
Kobie said:
Not only that, but the way we treat them once they've been shipped overseas is nothing short of criminal.

In Vietnam, soldiers rarely, if ever, served more than two tours. These days, you have guys serving four, five tours in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, and serving longer tours, and that is way too much time to have your **** wound that tight. And these guys are coming back with serious freaking problems.
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It's an all volunteer force. Only draftees had a 2 year hitch. Volunteers sign up for 4 years. I expect that a soldier would have to re-enlist to do as many as 6 tours.

Our military people are not victims.
 
Henry David said:
That is very much a theoretical assessment.

I agree with Jimmy Carter, and I don't think your assessment comports with reality. Not that the elections are rigged per se, no, I don't think that is widespread, though I'm sure it does happen from time to time. On its best day, politics is a dirty business.

My cynical view is that the entire 2 party system is both intellectually and morally bankrupt. As Nancy Pelosi demonstrated perfectly by taking impeachment off the table those years ago, there is no functional or realistic difference between the 2 major parties.

Now, you are absolutely correct that We The People carry quite a bit of the blame for this travesty, but it's true the system is rigged.

For example, on the last 2 elections here in Florida, voters had the choice of 7 or 9 candidates (can't remember which right now) for President, yet they rejected those other more principled choices in favor of either a black war monger or a white senile war monger.

In my mind, when it comes to actually having some measure of control over government actions, the jury box is far more potent than the ballot box.
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This is ridiculous. In the example you gave, they made a choice. They didn't make *YOUR* choice but that doesn't mean they didn't make *A* choice. You're just upset that they didn't pick your candidate, but that's because libertarian politics are wildly unpopular, they're only slightly more popular than voting communist in most places. Instead of just accepting that your candidates have virtually no chance in hell of getting elected for high public office, you create these elaborate conspiracy theories in your mind for why what you think are clearly the superior candidates perform so piss poorly in public elections.

It's pathetic, but it's the libertarian way. Don't worry, you're not alone, most libertarians work that way.
 
Cephus said:
This is ridiculous. In the example you gave, they made a choice. They didn't make *YOUR* choice but that doesn't mean they didn't make *A* choice. You're just upset that they didn't pick your candidate, but that's because libertarian politics are wildly unpopular, they're only slightly more popular than voting communist in most places. Instead of just accepting that your candidates have virtually no chance in hell of getting elected for high public office, you create these elaborate conspiracy theories in your mind for why what you think are clearly the superior candidates perform so piss poorly in public elections.

It's pathetic, but it's the libertarian way. Don't worry, you're not alone, most libertarians work that way.
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Not exactly a profound statement there. Yes, I know they didn't make "my" choice, and I know they made a "choice", but my point is that the electorate is so brainwashed regarding the "2 party system" that the other "choices" might as well have not been on the ballot.

In the end, Cynthia McKinney or the Libertarian candidate Johnson, would have made far better presidents than Obama, assuming one judges by constitutional governance.

If one judges by other standards, then, well....we certainly have the government we deserve.
 
Henry David said:
Not exactly a profound statement there. Yes, I know they didn't make "my" choice, and I know they made a "choice", but my point is that the electorate is so brainwashed regarding the "2 party system" that the other "choices" might as well have not been on the ballot.

In the end, Cynthia McKinney or the Libertarian candidate Johnson, would have made far better presidents than Obama, assuming one judges by constitutional governance.

If one judges by other standards, then, well....we certainly have the government we deserve.
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Those are just lies that third parties tell themselves because they don't want to accept that their party platforms simply do not resonate with a majority of Americans. Your own argument proves this. You think McKinney would have made a better president... from YOUR perspective, yet your perspective is shared by only a tiny minority of Americans and you're trying to tell people that it's because Americans are brainwashed. However, you're not willing to consider the very real possibility that maybe it's you and your tiny political cult that are brainwashed, maybe it's you with the problems and everyone else is fine.

It's something to consider, although I doubt you will.
 
Cephus said:
Those are just lies that third parties tell themselves because they don't want to accept that their party platforms simply do not resonate with a majority of Americans. Your own argument proves this. You think McKinney would have made a better president... from YOUR perspective, yet your perspective is shared by only a tiny minority of Americans and you're trying to tell people that it's because Americans are brainwashed. However, you're not willing to consider the very real possibility that maybe it's you and your tiny political cult that are brainwashed, maybe it's you with the problems and everyone else is fine.

It's something to consider, although I doubt you will.
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If it's just me, I wonder why the Occupy movement got going so well? If it's just me, I wonder why the gap between the richest and the average guy is growing so dramatically? If it's just me, I wonder why unemployment (the real unemployment, not the government propaganda version) is so strong?

No, Jimmy Carter was right a few months back--democracy in these United States is pretty much an illusion. So is the Republican form of government we like to brag about--rule of law, checks and balances, integrity of the judiciary, etc.
 
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