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Thread: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

  1. #81
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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The reason why the govt. doesn't represent the people is irrelevant. The only relevant fact in determining whether the govt. equates to the will of the people is whether it does.

    So if it doesn't, then the govt. and people are separate.
    But it does or the people would change the government. Why is that so hard for you to understand? It represents the will of the majority. It might not represent YOU, but your political views are far, far outside the majority.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But it does or the people would change the government. Why is that so hard for you to understand? It represents the will of the majority. It might not represent YOU, but your political views are far, far outside the majority.
    Do you really mean to say that the American people have the ability to change the government and its policies?

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    How much are those medals worth? They could sell them on eBay in exchange for money to pay their health care expenses.
    Most medals will, along with a quarter, buy one a cup of coffee at the snack bar.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Do you really mean to say that the American people have the ability to change the government and its policies?
    Yup. Every election. Will they? Who knows. They have the ability though, unless you're claiming that all elections are rigged and votes don't matter.
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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Yup. Every election. Will they? Who knows. They have the ability though, unless you're claiming that all elections are rigged and votes don't matter.
    That is very much a theoretical assessment.

    I agree with Jimmy Carter, and I don't think your assessment comports with reality. Not that the elections are rigged per se, no, I don't think that is widespread, though I'm sure it does happen from time to time. On its best day, politics is a dirty business.

    My cynical view is that the entire 2 party system is both intellectually and morally bankrupt. As Nancy Pelosi demonstrated perfectly by taking impeachment off the table those years ago, there is no functional or realistic difference between the 2 major parties.

    Now, you are absolutely correct that We The People carry quite a bit of the blame for this travesty, but it's true the system is rigged.

    For example, on the last 2 elections here in Florida, voters had the choice of 7 or 9 candidates (can't remember which right now) for President, yet they rejected those other more principled choices in favor of either a black war monger or a white senile war monger.

    In my mind, when it comes to actually having some measure of control over government actions, the jury box is far more potent than the ballot box.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat View Post
    This literally makes me want to cry, anybody who says the VA hasn't failed these men & woman is completely delusional. The government can't manage this, how can then be expected manage the entirety of the American people........
    Those vets who turn to the VA for help have a much lower rate of suicide. Most of them don't, and it's not for lack of the VA reaching out to them.

    VA personnel go through a lot of training in how to deal with suicidal vets. It's a top priority at the VA.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Not only that, but the way we treat them once they've been shipped overseas is nothing short of criminal.

    In Vietnam, soldiers rarely, if ever, served more than two tours. These days, you have guys serving four, five tours in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, and serving longer tours, and that is way too much time to have your **** wound that tight. And these guys are coming back with serious freaking problems.
    It's an all volunteer force. Only draftees had a 2 year hitch. Volunteers sign up for 4 years. I expect that a soldier would have to re-enlist to do as many as 6 tours.

    Our military people are not victims.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    That is very much a theoretical assessment.

    I agree with Jimmy Carter, and I don't think your assessment comports with reality. Not that the elections are rigged per se, no, I don't think that is widespread, though I'm sure it does happen from time to time. On its best day, politics is a dirty business.

    My cynical view is that the entire 2 party system is both intellectually and morally bankrupt. As Nancy Pelosi demonstrated perfectly by taking impeachment off the table those years ago, there is no functional or realistic difference between the 2 major parties.

    Now, you are absolutely correct that We The People carry quite a bit of the blame for this travesty, but it's true the system is rigged.

    For example, on the last 2 elections here in Florida, voters had the choice of 7 or 9 candidates (can't remember which right now) for President, yet they rejected those other more principled choices in favor of either a black war monger or a white senile war monger.

    In my mind, when it comes to actually having some measure of control over government actions, the jury box is far more potent than the ballot box.
    This is ridiculous. In the example you gave, they made a choice. They didn't make *YOUR* choice but that doesn't mean they didn't make *A* choice. You're just upset that they didn't pick your candidate, but that's because libertarian politics are wildly unpopular, they're only slightly more popular than voting communist in most places. Instead of just accepting that your candidates have virtually no chance in hell of getting elected for high public office, you create these elaborate conspiracy theories in your mind for why what you think are clearly the superior candidates perform so piss poorly in public elections.

    It's pathetic, but it's the libertarian way. Don't worry, you're not alone, most libertarians work that way.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    This is ridiculous. In the example you gave, they made a choice. They didn't make *YOUR* choice but that doesn't mean they didn't make *A* choice. You're just upset that they didn't pick your candidate, but that's because libertarian politics are wildly unpopular, they're only slightly more popular than voting communist in most places. Instead of just accepting that your candidates have virtually no chance in hell of getting elected for high public office, you create these elaborate conspiracy theories in your mind for why what you think are clearly the superior candidates perform so piss poorly in public elections.

    It's pathetic, but it's the libertarian way. Don't worry, you're not alone, most libertarians work that way.
    Not exactly a profound statement there. Yes, I know they didn't make "my" choice, and I know they made a "choice", but my point is that the electorate is so brainwashed regarding the "2 party system" that the other "choices" might as well have not been on the ballot.

    In the end, Cynthia McKinney or the Libertarian candidate Johnson, would have made far better presidents than Obama, assuming one judges by constitutional governance.

    If one judges by other standards, then, well....we certainly have the government we deserve.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Not exactly a profound statement there. Yes, I know they didn't make "my" choice, and I know they made a "choice", but my point is that the electorate is so brainwashed regarding the "2 party system" that the other "choices" might as well have not been on the ballot.

    In the end, Cynthia McKinney or the Libertarian candidate Johnson, would have made far better presidents than Obama, assuming one judges by constitutional governance.

    If one judges by other standards, then, well....we certainly have the government we deserve.
    Those are just lies that third parties tell themselves because they don't want to accept that their party platforms simply do not resonate with a majority of Americans. Your own argument proves this. You think McKinney would have made a better president... from YOUR perspective, yet your perspective is shared by only a tiny minority of Americans and you're trying to tell people that it's because Americans are brainwashed. However, you're not willing to consider the very real possibility that maybe it's you and your tiny political cult that are brainwashed, maybe it's you with the problems and everyone else is fine.

    It's something to consider, although I doubt you will.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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