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Thread: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

  1. #21
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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    It would be disgusting except that the left, in the form of Obama and Dems, have a lot to do with why those veterans are now bodies instead of living people. The way the left treats the military as a lab for social experiments and the way they threat veterans truly is disgusting.
    That's sheer nonsense. Those veterans committed suicide because of what, gays in the military? The "left" treats veterans far better than the "right" does these days.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Monte, again I point out the futility of looking for post #78 in a thread that only has 37 posts. And my name is DiAnna.
    I made the correction for you in the other thread, but you call me Monte as you point out your name isn't Di. Nice, I have nothing further to say to you.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I made the correction for you in the other thread, but you call me Monte as you point out your name isn't Di. Nice, I have nothing further to say to you.
    You hadn't yet made that correction when I wrote the quoted post, and I presumed you found shortening someone's name to be a sign of friendliness, since you did so the very first time you spoke to me. Judging by your reaction when I returned the favor, apparently it was the opposite!

    However, I would still like you to support your claim that America has declared war on Muslims, and tie it to your OP which is the unacceptable suicide rate among returning Veterans, which in my opinion are not being given the help they need by an overworked, underfunded VA. This is a debate site. When you open a thread, it helps if you support your opinions.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    You hadn't yet made that correction when I wrote the quoted post, and I presumed you found shortening someone's name to be a sign of friendliness, since you did so the very first time you spoke to me. Judging by your reaction when I returned the favor, apparently it was the opposite!

    However, I would still like you to support your claim that America has declared war on Muslims, and tie it to your OP which is the unacceptable suicide rate among returning Veterans, which in my opinion are not being given the help they need by an overworked, underfunded VA. This is a debate site. When you open a thread, it helps if you support your opinions.
    You criticised me for shortening your name while shortening mine which is quite hypocritical. The rest is up but you reject it, your perogative.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Veteran suicide rates alone do not necessarily tell us that VA care has failed. Maybe other details (such as observing that there are veterans seeking help and not getting it) demonstrate a failure, but we can't just notice a high suicide rate and then go on auto-blame mode against someone for not somehow preventing those suicides.

    I think there is a mix of both here, i.e. some instances of VA care being deficient and people committing suicide while on long wait lists for help, but also I think that even with the most utopian scenario of a comprehensive array of instantaneously available world-class mental health care... we'd still see high suicide rates among veterans.

    So my opinion is that yes we should be alert for possible shortcomings of VA care and think critically about how to beef it up if needed, as well as to be more vocal (both liberals and conservatives) about non-defensive military interventions in oil-rich nations.

    But I also think we should be cautious not to be idiots about tossing around blame for people killing themselves.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Oh, shut up. Once again, APACHE has to find some way to blame "the left," and he's using the bodies of dead veterans to do it. Disgusting.
    1. he was responding to those who argued that it was in fact "the hawks" who could be blamed.

    2. Both of his claims, however you want to adjust for his intent, are nonetheless accurate. For those whose suicide is driven by combat, the distinction between what we teach them to expect and what they then have to go through is a contributing factor. Agreeably it's nowhere as bad as it was for Vietnam, especially with the "return" factor, where there is at least public support until they find out the specifics, as opposed to public abuse.

    3. Military suicide rates are, in fact, an overblown "crises". Our suicide rate is lower than the civilian rates among the same population. While taking care of our people and saving them when necessary remains critical, this issue is the result of a zero-defect mindset, not an actual "epidemic".


    Before anyone loses their mind over that, my first team leader in the Marine Corps killed himself, as did a former platoon sergeant from my company and a Marine who had been under me. I've dealt with the issue. But we're not f****** victims.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Veteran suicide rates alone do not necessarily tell us that VA care has failed. Maybe other details (such as observing that there are veterans seeking help and not getting it) demonstrate a failure, but we can't just notice a high suicide rate and then go on auto-blame mode against someone for not somehow preventing those suicides.

    I think there is a mix of both here, i.e. some instances of VA care being deficient and people committing suicide while on long wait lists for help, but also I think that even with the most utopian scenario of a comprehensive array of instantaneously available world-class mental health care... we'd still see high suicide rates among veterans.

    So my opinion is that yes we should be alert for possible shortcomings of VA care and think critically about how to beef it up if needed, as well as to be more vocal (both liberals and conservatives) about non-defensive military interventions in oil-rich nations.

    But I also think we should be cautious not to be idiots about tossing around blame for people killing themselves.
    True story. Everyone also beats up on the VA for having such a backlog (and it does suck). No one wants to talk about the dirty little original source of that backlog, which is the prevalence of people who get out and try to put in a claim for virtually every major joint, organ, you name it, planning to get free medical care and a monthly check for life.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Oh, shut up. Once again, APACHE has to find some way to blame "the left," and he's using the bodies of dead veterans to do it. Disgusting.
    I didn't bring politics into the discussion.

    BTW: Why are libs always so concerned with vets but very few have ever served ?

    Why don't libs support those while they are serving in uniform instead of proclaiming they support them after they stopped wearing the uniform ?

    Which brings into play that while serving in the military there was little day to day contact with libs but after their tour of duty the day to day contact with libs in the civilian world is enough to drive someone to substance abuse, chronic unemployment, homelessness and eventually suicide.

    I was lucky compared to most, I was able to escape Los Angeles and fled to behind the Orange Curtain.

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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    And conservatives are still supporting on invading every middle eastern country they can think of.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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    Re: Why suicide rates among veterans may be more than 22 a day

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    I didn't bring politics into the discussion.
    You most certainly did.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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