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Thread: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    I don't see a problem with it as long as it's part of a larger strategy to clean up the neighborhoods. Things are out of control and it has been shown in several ways that presence deters crime. But, it should not be a long term thing. The National Guard or state police would supplement current law enforcement, not take up arms against citizens.
    This not the function of the national guard. With it becoming nothing but a reserve unit for our standing army, you don't want to put those types of soldiers in this kind of situation. State Police, I'm not that concerned about. They as a supplemental force is fine, but the NG? no way in hell...

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    I don't see a problem with it as long as it's part of a larger strategy to clean up the neighborhoods. Things are out of control and it has been shown in several ways that presence deters crime. But, it should not be a long term thing. The National Guard or state police would supplement current law enforcement, not take up arms against citizens.
    If its short term, as soon as they pull out, the **** starts all over again. And if one of them got shot during their "policing" they would take up arms against citizens. The problem will be solved when they reverse the decision to make the city a gun free zone, because in fact it's not gun free, right.

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    It would never end. Eventually the National Guard would be in every ghetto city and barrio in the United States. Why should law abiding decent people have to give up their rights because of animals like this? Wall off their portion of the city and let them achieve their own destiny.

    Don't make the United States like Mexico where there are three different types of police patrolling every block and crime is still out of control.

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    This not the function of the national guard. With it becoming nothing but a reserve unit for our standing army, you don't want to put those types of soldiers in this kind of situation. State Police, I'm not that concerned about. They as a supplemental force is fine, but the NG? no way in hell...
    Agree that the state police would be a better choice. National Guard could fill the role too, though. They are used during crises and emergencies. What's happening on the south side of Chicago qualifies. But, it is not a solution. It is only a way to attempt restoring order while a real plan is put into effect. There is precedent for NG being used in similar power vacuums. Are you concerned that the soldiers would do something rash?

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If its short term, as soon as they pull out, the **** starts all over again. And if one of them got shot during their "policing" they would take up arms against citizens. The problem will be solved when they reverse the decision to make the city a gun free zone, because in fact it's not gun free, right.
    I don't think gun availability would change much. The problems are caused by social and economic issues. Anyway, to address your first sentence: that's why I said there needs to be a strategy/plan implemented if they go with this idea, otherwise you're right and it's a waste. Let's not get carried away here with the arms against citizens argument. I'm sure the rules of engagement would be extremely restrictive and probably limited to self defense where a reasonable person would believe their life was in danger. Other than that, I'm sure they would act simply as extra eyes and ears and psychological deterrent.

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    This not the function of the national guard. With it becoming nothing but a reserve unit for our standing army, you don't want to put those types of soldiers in this kind of situation. State Police, I'm not that concerned about. They as a supplemental force is fine, but the NG? no way in hell...
    Right, because we know what happens when the camel gets his nose under the rug. This should find NO support.

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    I don't think gun availability would change much. The problems are caused by social and economic issues. Anyway, to address your first sentence: that's why I said there needs to be a strategy/plan implemented if they go with this idea, otherwise you're right and it's a waste. Let's not get carried away here with the arms against citizens argument. I'm sure the rules of engagement would be extremely restrictive and probably limited to self defense where a reasonable person would believe their life was in danger. Other than that, I'm sure they would act simply as extra eyes and ears and psychological deterrent.
    I'm talking about arms against citizens by your standards. It's still arms against citizens and the answer is a big fat NO.

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Agree that the state police would be a better choice. National Guard could fill the role too, though. They are used during crises and emergencies. What's happening on the south side of Chicago qualifies. But, it is not a solution. It is only a way to attempt restoring order while a real plan is put into effect. There is precedent for NG being used in similar power vacuums. Are you concerned that the soldiers would do something rash?
    No, lets get carried away with it here so they don't get carried away with it out there.

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I do believe it is illegal for the military to take up arms against its own citizens.

    Is the gov. saying his swat teams are not enough?
    What do you mean "take up arms against its own citizens" if you mean conduct law enforcement activities than that's not illegal, it was done during the Rodney King riots and during Katrina. Although I should be careful about using the phrase law enforcement activities, because even during Katrina the Army could not "arrest" anyone but they could "detain" you if they thought you were a security risk or a criminal, then someone else would come along to officially arrest you.

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    Re: Quinn: Id Consider Using National Guard, State Police To Help Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Agree that the state police would be a better choice. National Guard could fill the role too, though. They are used during crises and emergencies. What's happening on the south side of Chicago qualifies. But, it is not a solution. It is only a way to attempt restoring order while a real plan is put into effect. There is precedent for NG being used in similar power vacuums. Are you concerned that the soldiers would do something rash?
    I'm concerned with the blatant undermining of the Posse Comitatus. You don't use the Army, which is what the NG has turned into, for civilian policing. This is not the precedence you want to set.

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