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Thread: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

  1. #181
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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Nope.
    No more a problem than children believing in Santa Claus.
    No more a problem than Hindu's believing in Ganesh.
    No more a problem than people believing in reincarnation.

    You are free to believe whatever you wish.
    The difference is, my belief is fact.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    The difference is, my belief is fact.
    Funny.

    And wrong.

    As is obvious with your own words. You used "belief". Not me.

    I don't believe in facts. I know facts.

    Your arrogance is duly noted though.

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    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Funny.

    And wrong.

    As is obvious with your own words. You used "belief". Not me.

    I don't believe in facts. I know facts.

    Your arrogance is duly noted though.
    You indeed were talking about beliefs and what I believe. I know what I believe is a fact. Does that make you feel better....
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You indeed were talking about beliefs and what I believe. I know what I believe is a fact. Does that make you feel better....
    Typical dodge....but I'll accept it I guess.

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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Typical dodge....but I'll accept it I guess.
    Dodge? And what exactly did I dodge?
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Dodge? And what exactly did I dodge?
    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    The difference is, my belief is fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    100% Yes. Is that a problem for you?
    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Absolute fact. Somewhere between 10-15 thousand years ago it is estimated. As high as 25,000 years ago by some estimates.

    You spelled it out quite clearly and never once said anything about it being "your personal belief" until you were called on it.

    You were asked numerous questions, and you even stated in a previous post that the Bible is an authentic, historical reference of FACT.

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    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    You spelled it out quite clearly and never once said anything about it being "your personal belief" until you were called on it.

    You were asked numerous questions, and you even stated in a previous post that the Bible is an authentic, historical reference of FACT.
    What a stupid argument and stupid logic. Is it your personal belief that the Revolutionary war occurred? Yes? Mine too, but guess what, it is also a FACT!
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Badly worded by the Pope. By adopting the same labels used by LGBT groups, i. e. "gay", "lesbian", he is essentially deferring to those groups' divisive agenda.

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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Absolutely.
    Then, you obviously have no understanding of what "historically documented" entails. For example, I can write that unicorns rode the earth on a piece of paper. If that piece of paper is found 1,000 years later, that doesn't make what I wrote a historically documented account of any sort. The standards for that are a lot higher than you think.

    Secretary's Standards--Historical Documentation

    Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Historical Documentation

    Historic documentation provides important information related to the significance of a property for use by historians, researchers, preservationists, architects, and historical archeologists. Research is used early in planning to gather information needed to identify and evaluate properties. (These activities are discussed in the Standards and Guidelines for Preservation Planning and the Standards and Guidelines for Identification.) Historical documentation is also a treatment that can be applied in several ways to properties previously evaluated as significant; it may be used in conjunction with other treatment activities (as the basis for rehabilitation plans or interpretive programs, for example) or as a final treatment to preserve information in cases of threatened property destruction. These Standards concern the use of research and documentation as a treatment.

    Standard I. Historical Documentation Follows a Research Design that Responds to Needs Identified in the Planning Process

    Historical documentation is undertaken to make a detailed record of the significance of a property for research and interpretive purposes and for conservation of information in cases of threatened property destruction. Documentation must have defined objectives so that proposed work may be assessed to determine whether the resulting documentation will meet needs identified in the planning process. The research design or statement of objectives is a formal statement of how the needs identified in the plan are to be addressed in a specific documentation project. This is the framework that guides the selection of methods and evaluation of results, and specifies the relationship of the historical documentation efforts to other proposed treatment activities.

    Standard II. Historical Documentation Employs an Appropriate Methodology to Obtain the Information Required by The Research Design

    Methods and techniques of historical research should be chosen to obtain needed information in the most efficient way. Techniques should be carefully selected and the sources should be recorded so that other researchers can verify or locate information discovered during the research.

    Standard III. The Results of Historical Documentation Are Assessed Against the Research Design and Integrated into the Planning Process

    Documentation is one product of research; information gathered about the usefulness of the research design itself is another. The research results are assessed against the research design to determine how well they meet the objectives of the research. The results are integrated into the body of current knowledge and reviewed for their implications for the planning process. The research design is reviewed to determine how future research designs might be modified based on the activity conducted.

    Standard IV. The Results of Historical Documentation Are Reported and Made Available to the Public

    Research results must be accessible to prospective users. Results should be communicated to the professional community and the public in reports summarizing the documentation activity and identifying the repository of additional detailed information. The goal of disseminating information must be balanced, however, with the need to protect sensitive information whose disclosure might result in damage to properties.
    The Bible doesn't meet a single one of those standards satisfactorily. So how Genesis be "historically documented"? It isn't.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Then, you obviously have no understanding of what "historically documented" entails. For example, I can write that unicorns rode the earth on a piece of paper. If that piece of paper is found 1,000 years later, that doesn't make what I wrote a historically documented account of any sort. The standards for that are a lot higher than you think.

    Secretary's Standards--Historical Documentation



    The Bible doesn't meet a single one of those standards satisfactorily. So how Genesis be "historically documented"? It isn't.
    There are those in the secular world who disagree. For example.

    "...wherever detailed correspondence of biblical accounts and archeological facts can be established, then it usually turned out that the Bible is an accurate description of what went on."

    Clube, Victor & Napier, Bill - THE COSMIC SERPENT, (NY: Universe Books, 1982) p. 247

    They are not speaking of 'supernatural' events but good old fashioned research.

    Clube:

    Astronomer
    Former Dean of the Astrophysics Department of Oxford University

    Napier:
    Currently an honorary professor of Astrobiology at Cardiff University.
    Last edited by hfd; 09-21-13 at 02:13 PM.

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