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Iran: We will never develop nuclear weapons

poweRob said:
Librul... progressive... urrrrr... bad!

herp derp!


Now those threads are hilarious.
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Well, even in mockery, you get it spot on. Liberal progressives ARE bad....for freedom.
 
Montecresto said:
This is not an exhaustive list.

Iran – CIA overthrows the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh in a military coup, after he threatened to nationalize British oil. The CIA replaces him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran, whose secret police, SAVAK, is as brutal as the Gestapo.

Operation MK-ULTRA — Inspired by North Korea’s brainwashing program, the CIA begins experiments on mind control. The most notorious part of this project involves giving LSD and other drugs to American subjects without their knowledge or against their will, causing several to commit suicide. However, the operation involves far more than this. Funded in part by the Rockefeller and Ford foundations, research includes propaganda, brainwashing, public relations, advertising, hypnosis, and other forms of suggestion.

1954

Guatemala — CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

1954-1958

North Vietnam — CIA officer Edward Lansdale spends four years trying to overthrow the communist government of North Vietnam, using all the usual dirty tricks. The CIA also attempts to legitimize a tyrannical puppet regime in South Vietnam, headed by Ngo Dinh Diem. These efforts fail to win the hearts and minds of the South Vietnamese because the Diem government is opposed to true democracy, land reform and poverty reduction measures. The CIA’s continuing failure results in escalating American intervention, culminating in the Vietnam War.

1956

Hungary — Radio Free Europe incites Hungary to revolt by broadcasting Khruschev’s Secret Speech, in which he denounced Stalin. It also hints that American aid will help the Hungarians fight. This aid fails to materialize as Hungarians launch a doomed armed revolt, which only invites a major Soviet invasion. The conflict kills 7,000 Soviets and 30,000 Hungarians.

1957-1973

Laos — The CIA carries out approximately one coup per year trying to nullify Laos’ democratic elections. The problem is the Pathet Lao, a leftist group with enough popular support to be a member of any coalition government. In the late 50s, the CIA even creates an "Armee Clandestine" of Asian mercenaries to attack the Pathet Lao. After the CIA’s army suffers numerous defeats, the U.S. starts bombing, dropping more bombs on Laos than all the U.S. bombs dropped in World War II. A quarter of all Laotians will eventually become refugees, many living in caves.

1959

Haiti — The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.

1961

The Bay of Pigs — The CIA sends 1,500 Cuban exiles to invade Castro’s Cuba. But "Operation Mongoose" fails, due to poor planning, security and backing. The planners had imagined that the invasion will spark a popular uprising against Castro -– which never happens. A promised American air strike also never occurs. This is the CIA’s first public setback, causing President Kennedy to fire CIA Director Allen Dulles.

Dominican Republic — The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo’s business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.

Ecuador — The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man.

Congo (Zaire) — The CIA assassinates the democratically elected Patrice Lumumba. However, public support for Lumumba’s politics runs so high that the CIA cannot clearly install his opponents in power. Four years of political turmoil follow.

1963

Dominican Republic — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta.

Ecuador — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

1964

Brazil — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. The junta that replaces it will, in the next two decades, become one of the most bloodthirsty in history. General Castelo Branco will create Latin America’s first death squads, or bands of secret police who hunt down "communists" for torture, interrogation and murder. Often these "communists" are no more than Branco’s political opponents. Later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads.

1965

Indonesia — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.

Dominican Republic — A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country’s elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes.

Greece — With the CIA’s backing, the king removes George Papandreous as prime minister. Papandreous has failed to vigorously support U.S. interests in Greece.

Congo (Zaire) — A CIA-backed military coup installs Mobutu Sese Seko as dictator. The hated and repressive Mobutu exploits his desperately poor country for billions.

1966

The Ramparts Affair — The radical magazine Ramparts begins a series of unprecedented anti-CIA articles. Among their scoops: the CIA has paid the University of Michigan $25 million dollars to hire "professors" to train South Vietnamese students in covert police methods. MIT and other universities have received similar payments. Ramparts also reveals that the National Students’ Association is a CIA front. Students are sometimes recruited through blackmail and bribery, including draft deferments.

1967

Greece — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government two days before the elections. The favorite to win was George Papandreous, the liberal candidate. During the next six years, the "reign of the colonels" — backed by the CIA — will usher in the widespread use of torture and murder against political opponents. When a Greek ambassador objects to President Johnson about U.S. plans for Cypress, Johnson tells him: "**** your parliament and your constitution."

Operation PHEONIX — The CIA helps South Vietnamese agents identify and then murder alleged Viet Cong leaders operating in South Vietnamese villages. According to a 1971 congressional report, this operation killed about 20,000 "Viet Cong."

1968

Operation CHAOS — The CIA has been illegally spying on American citizens since 1959, but with Operation CHAOS, President Johnson dramatically boosts the effort. CIA agents go undercover as student radicals to spy on and disrupt campus organizations protesting the Vietnam War. They are searching for Russian instigators, which they never find. CHAOS will eventually spy on 7,000 individuals and 1,000 organizations.

Bolivia — A CIA-organized military operation captures legendary guerilla Che Guevara. The CIA wants to keep him alive for interrogation, but the Bolivian government executes him to prevent worldwide calls for clemency.

1969

Uruguay — The notorious CIA torturer Dan Mitrione arrives in Uruguay, a country torn with political strife. Whereas right-wing forces previously used torture only as a last resort, Mitrione convinces them to use it as a routine, widespread practice. "The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect," is his motto. The torture techniques he teaches to the death squads rival the Nazis’. He eventually becomes so feared that revolutionaries will kidnap and murder him a year later.

1970

Cambodia — The CIA overthrows Prince Sahounek, who is highly popular among Cambodians for keeping them out of the Vietnam War. He is replaced by CIA puppet Lon Nol, who immediately throws Cambodian troops into battle. This unpopular move strengthens once minor opposition parties like the Khmer Rouge, which achieves power in 1975 and massacres millions of its own people.

1971

Bolivia — After half a decade of CIA-inspired political turmoil, a CIA-backed military coup overthrows the leftist President Juan Torres. In the next two years, dictator Hugo Banzer will have over 2,000 political opponents arrested without trial, then tortured, raped and executed.

Haiti — "Papa Doc" Duvalier dies, leaving his 19-year old son "Baby Doc" Duvalier the dictator of Haiti. His son continues his bloody reign with full knowledge of the CIA.

1972

The Case-Zablocki Act — Congress passes an act requiring congressional review of executive agreements. In theory, this should make CIA operations more accountable. In fact, it is only marginally effective.

Cambodia — Congress votes to cut off CIA funds for its secret war in Cambodia.

Wagergate Break-in — President Nixon sends in a team of burglars to wiretap Democratic offices at Watergate. The team members have extensive CIA histories, including James McCord, E. Howard Hunt and five of the Cuban burglars. They work for the Committee to Reelect the President (CREEP), which does dirty work like disrupting Democratic campaigns and laundering Nixon’s illegal campaign contributions. CREEP’s activities are funded and organized by another CIA front, the Mullen Company.

1973

Chile — The CIA overthrows and assassinates Salvador Allende, Latin America’s first democratically elected socialist leader. The problems begin when Allende nationalizes American-owned firms in Chile. ITT offers the CIA $1 million for a coup (reportedly refused). The CIA replaces Allende with General Augusto Pinochet, who will torture and murder thousands of his own countrymen in a crackdown on labor leaders and the political left.
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The problem with these cut and paste posts is that they are so very distorted and one-sided that it would take a huge amount of time to respond to each point.

But if you feel the United States is a force for evil in the world then there is nothing I can do or say that would convince you otherwise.

Personally I believe the USA has been the strongest force for good in the world, bar none, with only Britain comparing.
 
Grant said:
Personally I believe the USA has been the strongest force for good in the world, bar none, with only Britain comparing.
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Grant said:
I tend to trust Putin over Obama in the Middle East now anyway.
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.....
 
You seem to be confusing one inept individual with the entire USA.
 
Grant said:
The problem with these cut and paste posts is that they are so very distorted and one-sided that it would take a huge amount of time to respond to each point.

But if you feel the United States is a force for evil in the world then there is nothing I can do or say that would convince you otherwise.

Personally I believe the USA has been the strongest force for good in the world, bar none, with only Britain comparing.
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When we're right we are right, when we're good we are good. But you really are disputing the CIA's covert operations throughout Latin America. And the governments support of dictatorships there? If so, then like you said, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Despite the fact there are troves of sources for the democracies that the US toppled in favour of dictators that benefited US international corporations.

And Britain! Jesus. Horrible atrocities during their days of imperialism.
 
Montecresto said:
When we're right we are right, when we're good we are good. But you really are disputing the CIA's covert operations throughout Latin America.
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Nowhere did I say that.

And the governments support of dictatorships there?
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How many dictatorships remain? You seem to feel that all dictatorships are the same, which is not true at all.

If so, then like you said, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Despite the fact there are troves of sources for the democracies that the US toppled in favour of dictators that benefited US international corporations.
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It is a better world we have today because of the actions of the United States and people who lived under the dictatorships, particularly Communist dictatorships, are very very grateful. You seem to reading the communist propaganda of some 30 years ago.
And Britain! Jesus. Horrible atrocities during their days of imperialism.
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I may be wrong, certainly. Which countries do you think were a greater force for good in the world than Britain and the United States?
 
Grant said:
It is a better world we have today because of the actions of the United States and people who lived under the dictatorships, particularly Communist dictatorships, are very very grateful. You seem to reading the communist propaganda of some 30 years ago.
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Your pretending that the governments that the CIA overthrew led to Central and South America being the democracies they are today. There's no evidence of that at all. In fact in Guatamala...

In 1992, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Rigoberta Menchú for her efforts to bring international attention to the government-sponsored, US backed genocide against the indigenous population...

...CIA trained paramilitaries were responsible for over 93 percent of the human rights violations during the war.

The Guatemalan Civil War ended in 1996 with a peace accord between the guerrillas and the government, negotiated by the United Nations through intense brokerage by nations such as Norway and Spain.
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So when the U.S. stopped sticking it's nose in another country's business, the atrocities came to an end. And that's just Guatamala. The U.S. government didn't broker the peace deal, the U.N. did.

The U.S. does a lot of good but to pretend that central and south America would never be where they are without the U.S. is patently false. In some instances the U.S. made things much worse and slowed down progress.
 
reinoe said:
Your pretending that the governments that the CIA overthrew led to Central and South America being the democracies they are today. There's no evidence of that at all. In fact in Guatamala...


So when the U.S. stopped sticking it's nose in another country's business, the atrocities came to an end. And that's just Guatamala. The U.S. government didn't broker the peace deal, the U.N. did.

The U.S. does a lot of good but to pretend that central and south America would never be where they are without the U.S. is patently false. In some instances the U.S. made things much worse and slowed down progress.
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US backed genocide! Which is why I say its bull**** when US presidents start wringing their hands about human rights abuses here and yonder and we need to go in and bomb the hell out of them to put an end to it.
 
reinoe said:
Your pretending that the governments that the CIA overthrew led to Central and South America being the democracies they are today. There's no evidence of that at all. In fact in Guatamala...
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Leftists lies and distortions till live on, despite the Cold war being done and dusted for over two decades. Why not do some research before you make false claims that should be known to everyone? Marxist Fraud Finally Exposed
So when the U.S. stopped sticking it's nose in another country's business, the atrocities came to an end. And that's just Guatamala. The U.S. government didn't broker the peace deal, the U.N. did.
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The UN?? When was the UN in Guatemala??
The U.S. does a lot of good but to pretend that central and south America would never be where they are without the U.S. is patently false. In some instances the U.S. made things much worse and slowed down progress.
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This is abysmal. Try reading the Black Book of Communism to see what really went on in Central America. I've been all over the place and have talked to people who actually live here and they verify what the Black Book says. I don't mean to insult you, I really don't, but this dumbing down of the American people against their own country is one of the greatest tragedies of the modern era.
 
Montecresto said:
US backed genocide! .
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Genocide?

How ironic,considering your support for the Iranian proxy group Hizb'allah that has called for a genocide against Jews.
 
Montecresto said:
US backed genocide! Which is why I say its bull**** when US presidents start wringing their hands about human rights abuses here and yonder and we need to go in and bomb the hell out of them to put an end to it.
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Any beef in particular you might have?

What about those countries which have had a more positive influence on the world than Britain and the United States? Completed your research yet?
 
Gardener said:
Genocide?

How ironic,considering your support for the Iranian proxy group Hizb'allah that has called for a genocide against Jews.
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I do not support Hezbollah. And would not wish for a genocide on the Jews. But then that's hyperbole because they aren't capable of doing that anyway.
 
Grant said:
Any beef in particular you might have?

What about those countries which have had a more positive influence on the world than Britain and the United States? Completed your research yet?
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You list two imperialistic countries as your models. Lmao. Not to distract from any and all good that the US has/does do. My beef is with the atrocities. Which you pretend don't exist. Btw, which CA country are you in?
 
Montecresto said:
I do not support Hezbollah. And would not wish for a genocide on the Jews. But then that's hyperbole because they aren't capable of doing that anyway.
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Right now it's a slow attempt at genocide, though they are moving as quickly as third world countries are capable. Many leftists are obviously getting impatient.
 
Montecresto said:
You list two imperialistic countries as your models. Lmao. Not to distract from any and all good that the US has/does do. My beef is with the atrocities. Which you pretend don't exist. Btw, which CA country are you in?
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I picked the United States and Britain as the countries which have done the most good for mankind. Which countries do you feel did a better job?
 
Grant said:
Right now it's a slow attempt at genocide, though they are moving as quickly as third world countries are capable. Many leftists are obviously getting impatient.
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I wouldn't welcome a genocide on the Jews for sure or any people anywhere, ever. I would prefer peace. But sometimes I had trouble getting my children to get along in peace when I was raising them, how about 7 billion people! :)
 
Grant said:
I picked the United States and Britain as the countries which have done the most good for mankind. Which countries do you feel did a better job?
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If you mean the good being aid. I certainly don't disagree with that. But for me it doesn't neutralise the bad. In other words when we're good we're great, but when we're bad we're awful. Which is the danger of the powerful.
 
Grant said:
I picked the United States and Britain as the countries which have done the most good for mankind. Which countries do you feel did a better job?
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Don't bother with the question because I know you can't answer it. It just relates to your earlier proposition that you were unaffected by propaganda. In fact you were responding to Saul Alinsky's, the first Community Organizer, rule number 4.

RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”

This is crucial. You cannot name any countries who have done more for humankind that the US or Britain but, in your eyes, they will always come up short. That's because more is expected from them, although no one seriously expects a great deal from Mexico or Portugal, so any perceived flaws in the US or GB will always be highlighted and people will eventually think as you do, complaining of all the real and perceived US failures. And any good things said about the US is called 'Jingoism' or 'right wing rhetoric', or whatever other term is used in the anti American teachings of today.
 
Never trust a politician.
 
Grant said:
Don't bother with the question because I know you can't answer it. It just relates to your earlier proposition that you were unaffected by propaganda. In fact you were responding to Saul Alinsky's, the first Community Organizer, rule number 4.

RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”

This is crucial. You cannot name any countries who have done more for humankind that the US or Britain but, in your eyes, they will always come up short. That's because more is expected from them, although no one seriously expects a great deal from Mexico or Portugal, so any perceived flaws in the US or GB will always be highlighted and people will eventually think as you do, complaining of all the real and perceived US failures. And any good things said about the US is called 'Jingoism' or 'right wing rhetoric', or whatever other term is used in the anti American teachings of today.
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I didn't use any of the terms. I have put American aid in its proper place. Many countries have done more good for the world then bad. You named two. And that's the point. More good then bad. The US does their good openly and their bad covertly, so you only think they've done more good.
 
Montecresto said:
I didn't use any of the terms. I have put American aid in its proper place. Many countries have done more good for the world then bad. You named two. And that's the point. More good then bad. The US does their good openly and their bad covertly, so you only think they've done more good.
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You cannot answer the question and I knew you couldn't. It really doesn't matter.

Perhaps you should just think twice, and do some research, before you rubbish the United States.

Are they still teaching "I, Rigoberta Menchu" in the US public schools as fact, btw?
 
Grant said:
You cannot answer the question and I knew you couldn't. It really doesn't matter.

Perhaps you should just think twice, and do some research, before you rubbish the United States.

Are they still teaching "I, Rigoberta Menchu" in the US public schools as fact, btw?
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No, the US rubbishes itself.
 
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